New Consultation to ban all swords

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loggin
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by loggin » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:01 pm

You still thinking about nihonto blades only when it comes to the price, you will be able to purchase a nihonto from somewhere, UK suppliers would probably still be able to sell these as they are legal under the ban, but as for the cheaper blades, say hanwei, I think you'll have to source from outside the UK and face the issue of proving yourself to the customs authority as I don't think UK suppliers will want to accept the responsibility of finding out whether you are a martial artist or not, or at least that's the impression most of them have given me, they may have been more willing if a licensing system had been put into place but that hasn't materialised

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:57 pm

Ah, I see. Thanks again for claryfying Loggin. From what you've said, this is going to be more hassle than its worth! I'm just hoping that there wont be a holy foul up on importing antique, original swords from overseas auctions I'm going to, later in the year...yeah, no doubt there will be, somewhere down the line!

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Big Lazy
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Big Lazy » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:25 pm

Someone tell me if I'm wrong but if you get caught trying to import a banned sword wont you get done for it?

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skippydm
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by skippydm » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:37 pm

If your lucky they will just destroy it and charge you for doing so, something as high profile as this you will most likely end up with a fine if ya lucky, Time if your not :|

loggin
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by loggin » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:08 pm

Yeah, if you import you are likely to get into hot water, but under the word of the law there are exemptions for those who are collecting nihonto blades, martial artists and re-enactors (i.e. "It shall be a defense...."), so basically the onus of proof will be on you

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:11 pm

Larnz wrote:Someone tell me if I'm wrong but if you get caught trying to import a banned sword wont you get done for it?
The auctions I'm away to, are for a number of antique original swords and, as such are exempt. The auction houses are very good at shipping these things for a fee, so there shouldn't be a problem; unless some noob at customs isn't too clued-in as to the law the ban allows, or not, as the case may be. I just hope to God they can tell a mint condition original from an 'Antique finished' replica!

loggin
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by loggin » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:01 pm

I don't think they'll rely on eyeball as to the authenticity of the sword, I get the feeling they will hold it until documents can be produced to prove otherwise

Does anyone know when the actual ban comes into force yet ? ? It seems like it's slowly creeping back :-D, first it was meant to be october last year, then april 1st, then the 6th, now I've seen some places advertising it as the 8th ? ?

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:27 pm

I've not encountered problems from US auctions before, but I'm going to Rome in May and thats a new territory for me. I'll just have to see how it goes, I think, Loggin. April 6th is the stated date for this ban,

quench
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by quench » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:06 am

feel sorry for you, in a supportive way. i mean for iai i found out that as long as the teacher deems it to be well constructed enough, a sword can be used for practice. i didn't know this. it's the nihonto which are used for gradings so i am told. one can save for a japanese made sword, however at about 3.5K it would take a while. the equivalent would be you can only use footballs made in Pele's town in Brazil. Or only fencing epee made in France, or a Cutlass made in the UK. Perhaps this might be the situation after the ban, or hopefully people will see sense and identify a well made product which emulates the processes in Japan.

Iron Donkey
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Iron Donkey » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:36 pm

Quench, I've seen people turn up for Iaido gradings with Bokken.

It is an absolute defense for any blade, if it is being used for a martial art that requires it provided that club meets certain criteria, irrespective of where the blade was forged. (The head of Iaido for the BKA actually went to the Home Office and gave them the wording for this ban in part.) The BKA is 100% behind cheap immitation blades being banned. So there is no need to start saving for your Japanese forged Shinken just yet as a well forged Chinese blade will probably still be permissable provided it is sourced through what is likely to be either, a licensed martial arts shop, or a club that fits within the meaning of the act.

The BKA is really tightening up though, and if a sensei sniffs a member that is just a memeber to buy swords....the instruction is to basically get rid of them. Which once again I fully agree with.

I am concerned though Quench. Every time I read one of your posts I want to throw myself off a bridge. **nuns*

Loggin, you'll be fine. Once things have settled down, speak to your sensei about where you can get hold of swords. The BKA is likely to produce a notification to its members in due course that clarifies exactly what can and cannot be done. I can think of 3 clubs off hand that were sourcing Hanwei blades to their practitioners rescently and the defence the BKA concocted for the act was exactly to cover clubs like that. The BKA took real steps to make sure that Iaido didn't require the investment of like 3.5K to practice in earnest. So I would hold fire. Iaito are pretty much safe because the weapon must be capable of causing a cut....whcih a blunt Iaito won't do....especially if it's that Nickel Aluminium alloy which pretty much shatters if you look at it funny.

Really this ban just kicks collectors in the crotch and that's why it annoys me. Really the governement should be policing violent crime rather than restricting the freedoms of the innocent majority of sword owners.....but ho hum....

quench
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by quench » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:23 pm

Don't as you have alot to live for obviously :D

loggin
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by loggin » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:36 pm

I questioned my sensei about getting an iaito and got a very blank look, his words 'I always use live blades', and to tell you the truth so far all the Iaido books I have read said that to truely learn you have to use real blades eventually to get out of the bad habits of mishandling the blades (although I actually want an Iaito to start with).

Plus my dojo isn't a member of the BKA and is affiliated with a Japanese school, so not sure how that's going to work either, I'm just hoping that BKA hasn't done a deal that protects just it's member but also protects all practitioners

Iron Donkey
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Iron Donkey » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:14 pm

Some schools do advocate the use of a live blade from the offset, but they're in the minority even in Japan. I don't know what books you've been reading, but most (but not all) believe that really a shinken is an investment for those of 2nd Dan and above. A good sensei will stop you mishandling your blade in the first instance. The fact is, I've seen a 3rd Dan near enough take his thumb off during Noto with a live blade. :GGG

Sure eventually you'll want a Shinken, but really, until you're shodan, your considered mudan (no-grade) which means you're not a student, you're an initiate, which means by the Japanese school standard where all 'students' should use a live blade, you still don't quite hit the mark.

What are you learning Katori Shinto Ryu?


Whatever style you're doing, if your school are all but insisting that you use a live blade... IMO you should really look at another school. The fact is, you will make mistakes, and using a live blade is not the time to make them, no matter how much respect you show it. A Japanese forged Shinken is absolutely sharp beyond your imagining. Just grazing yourself with it can rapidly become a serious injury. Touching it's moving blade lightly with a finger can result in the loss of that finger.

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Moon
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Moon » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:31 pm

Iron Donkey wrote:I am concerned though Quench. Every time I read one of your posts I want to throw myself off a bridge. **nuns*
Every time I read one...I want to throw him off a bridge...from a great height. :roll:

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ancienttoaddefender
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by ancienttoaddefender » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:31 pm

there are some very nice bokken available for a fraction of the price. should be all you need for practice purposes, and it will save on plasters... :mrgreen:

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