New Consultation to ban all swords

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Wanderingblade
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Wanderingblade » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:29 pm

simonatack wrote:If we dont start getting collectively organised and make a unified voice against this, its over for swords, then its over for shooting sports and Fencing, and javellin throwing until we are down to being a disarmed Nation of culturally and historically disenfranchised sheep who couldn't be trusted with so much as a bloody toothpick in the eyes of the world!
Please visit http://www.akct.org

We are getting organised - we are making headway and if we band together we will become a voice which cannot be denied.

I'm not idealistic or naieve, I know how the system works but the game is still a game of 2 sides and unless we are prepared to make a stand then we can never complain about this or any subsequent ban that follows. Letters are good, but easily forgotten as so many times they are not followed up or pursued. Too many people take the first reply as the final reply and drop the matter.

We have 2 choices - be apathetic and start collecting stamps, or sign up - get involved and be heard.

skippydm
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by skippydm » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:11 am

Well Done you got that site looking great since the last time i saw it, Good to see some of the makers you got involved as well, Magnus and Albert are some of my favourites.

The code of conduct works, its clear and simple.

All the best :D

Iron Donkey
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Iron Donkey » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:44 am

Larnz wrote:
simonatack wrote:If we dont start getting collectively organised and make a unified voice against this, its over for swords, then its over for shooting sports and Fencing, and javellin throwing until we are down to being a disarmed Nation of culturally and historically disenfranchised sheep who couldn't be trusted with so much as a bloody toothpick in the eyes of the world!
You're wasting your time dude. I've said it a million times on these boards already and I'll say it again... The government wants them banned so they'll be banned, its not up to the public no matter how much fuss is made. Its time to accept facts and get on with our lives.
Whilst I can see your point, and I can totally understand your cynical sentiment, it's shocking how little the right of protest that we have in this country is used. There are parts of the world where protesting for basic human freedoms can result in indefinate jail sentances, brutal beatings, or even death. What's interesting is that in these countries people protest none the less. (Keeping Amnesty International extremely busy.) It's the idea of the restriction of human freedom that is the reason for these protests, and the second you consider yourself defeated before the political battle has even begun, then you may as well kiss democracy goodbye. We have a huge amount of freedom to generate human change. Media sensationalism has turned swords and knives into the territory of violent criminals alone. Amazingly, violent crime has never been lower in the last 30 years than it is now. Yet bans are considered to be more necessary now than they were in the past?

Democracy is founded on the right that people have to voice their opinions. Ultimately protest may be futile, but a friend of mine in the US put it wonderfully when I asked him what he would do if they banned guns in the US. His reply was, "They could pry them out of his cold dead fingers." I posited that it was a bit extreme, and his answer to that was, "It's not the guns that's the issue, it's the issue of freedom and what's at stake if you allow a completely law abiding citizen to be punnished for the actions of a minority, rather than protected by the government from that same minority through effective leadership."

Whilst I don't believe that the right to bare arms is one worth dying for, I do however believe that we need to shake off the apathy otherwise we'll just be sitting on a forum and bitching. In the US the ban on swords would be constitutional change with right of challenge. The elected dictatorship that we have suffered in this country has taken us into an illegal war against the will of the majority, crippled working families with tax, and in general been absurd from start to finnish. A government with just over 30% of the popular vote somehow amassed an unasailable majority in the house of commons, allowing the actual people they are meant to represent no say.

Our cultural history and heritage is actually what's at stake. This will continue to be the case if those that can take action, no longer feel there is a point. You may not actually get what you want out of organized protest, but the act of organized protest is NEVER pointless. It's not about winning, it's standing for something you actually believe in. Most protest is known to be futile, but we have the least at stake for doing it, and if we don't use that right to civil disobedience to make a point, then we ultimately may as well not have it.

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:31 am

This puts everything into a calmer perspective. Thanks for posting irondonkey. I just don't get an impression of anyone on this forum being of the sort who would commit an assault with a blade of any description. Just decent people with an enthusiastic interest in something that has shaped the world over thousands of years, for good, sometimes bad, but is there even today. The QUEEN herself uses swords in her position as monarch. From holding the Sword of State as a symbol of her ascendancy, to tapping the shoulders of newly-dubbed Knights with the blade. Are politicians really so utterly mindless of the Sword in our cultural identity, that a piece of paper is going to take that awareness from our souls and just make it go away? What will they expect Her Majesty to use when they step forward to receive their in-built reward for their "service" to the country...a bit of wood? We must unify and lobby and make our voices heard; while we still, even have THAT freedom left to us, to do so. All that will happen otherwise, is that a trade in swords will flourish underground. Illegally perhaps, but there nonetheless. The Sword is a symbol of our ancestors battles defending this country in its darkest hours and stands for justice in our society today. It lies at the heart of our cultural heritage. No one should be made to feel ashamed for having a healthy interest in them!
Last edited by simonatack on Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:44 am

EmmaD wrote:
You're wasting your time dude. I've said it a million times on these boards already and I'll say it again... The government wants them banned so they'll be banned, its not up to the public no matter how much fuss is made. Its time to accept facts and get on with our lives.
He's standing up to be counted and making his opinion known about an injustice. That is never a waste of time.
Thank you, Emma D, whoever, wherever you are.

eyesonly
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by eyesonly » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:35 pm

Great post Irondonkey :tumbsup:

I am new to the forum but have been interested in nihonto for a long time since studying Japanese. I was saving up for a PC Tiger Katana and therefore was much saddened to come accross the news of the sword ban, :cry: but hardly surprised. The Labour government is way out of line with their banning policies. One of the worst i've heard is plans to ban motorcycles over 600cc, because "no one really needs all of that power"... which was reported in MCN last week.

We all have a chance to excersize our political voice sometime in the next two years at the next general election. Unfortunately for nihonto collectors and practitioners it looks like that will be too late.


Having read through the forum and posts by Irondonkey, it seems at least that Iaito will still be purchasable after the ban... but I wonder if this will change with the attempt to ban all swords.

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Big Lazy
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Big Lazy » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:58 pm

eyesonly wrote:We all have a chance to excersize our political voice sometime in the next two years at the next general election. Unfortunately for nihonto collectors and practitioners it looks like that will be too late
Do you mean replacing the Labour Government with the Tories? Please don't forget that its a Tory MP that proposed this ban with the support of his party leader :roll:

I really do admire all of you that think that protests etc will help change the Governments stance on this ban, but when has protesting changed anything in the past? For example how many people were opposed to the new terminal at Heathrow? How many protests were there? Did it make a change? Did it buggery! Everyone needs to understand that once the Government wants to do something it will do it and any public consultation is just there so the public can say they've at least had their right to respond. Honestly anyone who thinks they can get this ban turned around by protesting is delusional.

As sword collectors this ban is possibly the most important thing going on in our minds right now, but the rest of the public see it as nothing important and I'm willing to bet the majority will welcome the ban as they foolishly think the streets will be safer as a result of it.

Many of you may even think I'm on the side of the Government with this defeatist attitude, trust me I'm not, it's just I know a losing battle when I see one and this isn't worth fighting anymore, even the major sword manufacturers know it and that's why they've not done anything to try and halt this ridiculous ban.

I guess the pen really is mightier than the sword in this case and there's nothing we can do about it :cry:

eyesonly
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by eyesonly » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:21 pm

You're right this is most definitely a battle that won't be won, I couldn't agree on that more :cry:

I'm glad I live in a country where I have the right to vote, but I have no confidence in any of our parties to steer the country in the right direction. We are in a democracy but a badly run democracy can become 'tyranny of the majority'. The job of our elected representatives is to protect the rights of the minority, whereas in the UK we are seeing these headline-friendly blanket-bans. To the government, sword collectors/practicioners are just a small group who will have to 'put up and shut up'.

Whilst at the same time, I have some hope that done properly this could be a good thing. I know some airsoft guys who tell me they faced similar problems with the banning of their weapons due to looking so realistic, but they eventually got around that with stronger groups and licensing to allow them to purchase and import the equipment legally. Hopefully, something like this can happen to the sword trade and true enthusiasts will be able to continue somewhat unhindered. :| This is of course a very optimistic outlook!

I think efforts directed at protesting the ban are certainly futile, and would be better spent towards getting regualtion for licensing to be accepted to purchase swords. Most martial arts have a licensing system already and this could perhaps be used to allow purchase of swords... I wouldn't know where to start of course but it's an idea. Looking at my friends impressive collection of airsoft equipment bought legally, :GG there could be some light at the end of the tunnel.

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Big Lazy
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Big Lazy » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:36 pm

Try buying airsoft equipment now if you're not affiliated with a licenced airsoft club. You cant just apply for membership either, its very hard to get accepted and then you have to have attended various meetings before you're even eligible to purchase such equipment. I cant see it being so easy with swords either they dont want to control them, they just want to ban them.

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cybernex
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by cybernex » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:40 pm

According to a good airsofter friend of mine, You have to regulary attend a airsoft skirmish site regulary more than 5 times before they will even concider making you a member of that site.

Then you have to attend regulary after your a member or they just refuse to re-new your membership when it comes up for renewal.

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:52 pm

Reluctantly in this case, you are very much correct in everything you say about this Larnz. Nothing anyone can do or say will stop it from happening. But would it be too much to hope that a moderate, concessionary line that would give collectors and practitioners a bit of leeway to aquire swords legally might follow, once the ban is in force. Or will, as I expect, an underground, illicit trade in Japanese and European swords will result; and thrive to such an extent that the government will have to rethink its strategy in the light of uncontrollable numbers of swords flooding in to satisfy demands, as with certain other, illegal commodities?

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Wanderingblade
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Wanderingblade » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:53 pm

Larnz wrote:
eyesonly wrote:when has protesting changed anything in the past?
Poll Tax springs to mind?
Larnz wrote:I guess the pen really is mightier than the sword in this case and there's nothing we can do about it :cry:
I think someone needs a hug. ;)

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Moon
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Moon » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:06 pm

eyesonly wrote: I am new to the forum but have been interested in nihonto for a long time since studying Japanese. I was saving up for a PC Tiger Katana and therefore was much saddened to come accross the news of the sword ban.......
A PC Tiger is not,never has or ever will be Nihonto.
eyesonly wrote:We all have a chance to excersize our political voice sometime in the next two years at the next general election.Unfortunately for nihonto collectors and practitioners it looks like that will be too late.
Nihonto are definitely exempt,it looks like genuine MA practitioners could well be too and it makes no difference who gets into power at the next general election...even the Monster Raving Loony Party won't overturn any bans on weapons that will have been imposed by then.
[rant]
We've known about this ban for fuggin ages but I wonder just how many of us really did take the time to sign the online petition or write to our MP...very few,is my guess.
Some people on this forum have short memories and have posted that they can't be arsed to vote or even register to vote...I've said it before to these people and I'm saying it again...If you can't be bothered to register,vote or write to your MP,that's if you even know who your MP is :roll: ...you've given up the right to complain about anything that this Government or any other has done or will do...you a$$holes. :evil:
[/rant]

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Big Lazy
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Big Lazy » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:08 pm

Wanderingblade wrote:Poll Tax springs to mind?
Yeah they changed it to council tax instead and I've just had my council tax bill come in too :evil:
Wanderingblade wrote:I think someone needs a hug. ;)
I think I need something a bit stronger than a hug, bend over and lube up sir :twisted:

eyesonly
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by eyesonly » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:02 pm

simonatack wrote:would it be too much to hope that a moderate, concessionary line that would give collectors and practitioners a bit of leeway to aquire swords legally might follow, once the ban is in force
Lets hope so, however unlikely it might be.
Moon wrote:A PC Tiger is not,never has or ever will be Nihonto.
Of course.Unfortunately I can't imagine a day when i'll be able to justify spending thousands on a real nihonto, therefore a PC sword would have to suffice :D
Moon wrote:
eyesonly wrote:We all have a chance to excersize our political voice sometime in the next two years at the next general election.Unfortunately for nihonto collectors and practitioners it looks like that will be too late.
Nihonto are definitely exempt
My bad, I should have put 'sword' there instead of nihonto, i'd already read about genuine Japanese made swords being exempt. Will post more carefully in future :oops:

Moon wrote:If you can't be bothered to register,vote or write to your MP,that's if you even know who your MP is
Your right, it's is a shame voter apathy has got so bad in the UK though it's partly down to the government themselves; they would rather we concentrated on consumerism than politics.

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