New Consultation to ban all swords

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Moon
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Moon » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:17 pm

Larnz wrote:Can we not have loads of video clips on the serious threads please thank you.
Agreed...it's like bloody Cartoon Network instead of the ad's during the breaks on the History Channel. :S

quench
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by quench » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:31 am

I heard there will be an exemption to the samurai ban, if you can prove the sword you buy was made using traditional processes. I don't know if this is regardless of country of manufacture. Maybe Paul Chen and some other forges will make a certificate system. In any case, before the ban this is rumor but I hope it's true. Given how draconian the UK is I doubt it. I simply feel sorry and furious for people just getting into this, or wish to practice. I mean a nihonto starts at about 4K for a non customised, then goes up to about 28K i've heard. Maybe more for record setting pieces, making Iaido the preserve of the Rotschild family.

quench
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by quench » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:28 am

what about the exemption for a blade made with traditional forging methods, even if it is another country which emulates techniques from Japan, eg Dynasty Forge, Bugei etc? We can only hope. We have some time though before the death knell of October. It is sad and horrid for newcombers to the hobby tbh. :8745

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Big Lazy
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Big Lazy » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:53 am

Quench would you please stop double posting. This the 2nd time I've had to tell you about this and next time will see you put in the Sin Bin for 24 hours. In future please use the edit feature and read the rules of the forum in full before making another post.

In answer to your question/questions, its been widely accepted that only samurai swords made in Japan by legitimate sword smiths will be exempt from the ban, but with Customs being so strict only a muppet would try and import one into the UK as it would possibly get confiscated and worse destroyed before you even have chance to put forward your legal argument. With this added crap that all swords will be banned too then its no where near clear what will be allowed and what wont. I guess we're just gonna have to wait and see what our elected Government decides on the matter.

Jaykar
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Jaykar » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:05 pm

Just a thought, how about getting some attention for this by organising a peaceful protest march, with all concerned martial artists in their particular disciplines dress? Re-enactors in theirs etc. Marches through London have been effective at other things, so why not this, could possibly result in some press coverage too, and with a suitable number of people involved the press would basically have a choice of explaining our plight or saying "a bunch of crazies marched on London".

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:42 pm

Its a nice idea and one I would turn out and march for. But I cannot remember marches being succesful in the end. Fuel protesters, Countryside Alliance, the Poll Tax marches that turned into riots, even peoples livelyhoods such as the Miner's strike of 84, all of them failed in turning back government policy. Swords WILL be banned and even a highly unlikely outburst of mass rioting would only bring minor concession. But I prefer showing my utter discontent, knowing I would lose, rather than silently give in and let them feel that banning these things was overwhelmingly accepted by all of us, because we didn't stand up and shout. Personally, I hope a huge underground trade in illicit swords follows on. That would possibly cause a gov. rethink. I don't see anyone going to clink for having an insatiable thirst for history?

Jaykar
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Jaykar » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:43 pm

The fuel protests were not directly against the government, they were against the oil companies as well, and petrol prices did drop after those. It seems to me one of the biggest problems with this cause is lack of awareness, you'd be surprised how many people don't know that there are still martial arts practised today with swords, when I spoke to friends and colleagues about taking up kendo most of them thought that all martial arts were hand to hand.

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:24 pm

Yes, fuel prices did fall; but only by a little and look where they are now! As for most of your friends and colleagues never knowing about Kendo, that, I guess is symptomatic of today. Some people I know would think it was a brand of coffee! It seems to point to the rather sad fact that, only those of us who have a care and an understanding of sword arts and an appreciation for their aesthetic beauty, far removed from the purposes they were originally intended, are really a minority interest group in the social order of things. I dont honestly know how many other areas of society actually know there is a ban on samurai swords coming, other than a column in the morning paper they will forget, as soon as they turn the next page. I've stated before, if swords and collectors/practitioners were a multi-billion dollar global industry, they would'nt dare so much as dream of banning them. But ours, alas, does not have that level of commercial interest to protect them. Alcohol abuse is one of the biggest social breakdowns there is now, but do they ban cheap booze flooding the drinks market and fuelling binge-drinking among the young? No! They slap extra taxes on it instead. Thats the difference between the two commodities. And thats why swords will be banned. Its too small an interest to make money from,but enough to fiddle crime stats with. And make the act of doing nothing, seem like doing something!

Iron Donkey
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Iron Donkey » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:50 pm

quench wrote:I heard there will be an exemption to the samurai ban, if you can prove the sword you buy was made using traditional processes. I don't know if this is regardless of country of manufacture. Maybe Paul Chen and some other forges will make a certificate system. In any case, before the ban this is rumor but I hope it's true. Given how draconian the UK is I doubt it. I simply feel sorry and furious for people just getting into this, or wish to practice. I mean a nihonto starts at about 4K for a non customised, then goes up to about 28K i've heard. Maybe more for record setting pieces, making Iaido the preserve of the Rotschild family.

Quench, that's nonsense. The draft statue that passed is now a matter of public record. There is no exemption for tradional process. Swords that are exempt are all Japanese blades forged before 1954 and all blades forged in Japan after that date that are manufactured using a traditional process.

And in response to your comment on Iaido, that's also completely wrong. The head of Iaido in the BKA actually went to the home office and aided them drawing up the statute. There is an exemption for ANY BLADE (not just Japanese) that is provided to someone that is using it for a 'sporting activity' defined as a martial art at an established club with a code of conduct and insurance. There is also an exemption for re-enactment activities, (for once again all blades, not just Japanese blades) provided that it meets the same criteria as the above.

So no, Iaido isn't becomming the preserve of the Rotschild family, and the BKA took huge steps to make sure that wasn't the case.

I mean seriously, with all the information right there and available, it's a bit late in the day to just be making up stuff. As a casual collector, you are basically stuffed. That's sad for the casual collector, but unfortunately the government can't see any legitimate reason for people to own swords if they aren't using them for anything legitimate. Lets just hope that there isn't a wave of pictureframe or book related assaults (and by wave I mean about 1 a year) or we may end up with a picture frame ban.

As to the banning of all swords, it was inevitable the second the Samurai sword was put forward.

Though, yesterday a squirrel came into my living room and told me that the sword ban wasn't real and that a bronze horse with a degree in astrophysics could forge a sword made of cheese and that was OK. I for one believe that squirrel.

quench
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by quench » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:57 pm

Great, becuase I have handed in the papers to become a BKA member. Better late than never.

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Moon
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by Moon » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:37 pm

Iron Donkey wrote:Though, yesterday a squirrel came into my living room and told me that the sword ban wasn't real and that a bronze horse with a degree in astrophysics could forge a sword made of cheese and that was OK. I for one believe that squirrel.
I'd believe that too before I took notice of some of the drivel that's being rumoured on the 'net. :D

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:34 pm

At the risk of sounding like a complete numpty, just how do I go from being a 'casual collector who will be stuffed' (actually, a very serious collector who has travelled the world in search of swords.) to being a Novice martial artist who can keep on purchasing. Who/ where do I contact?

skippydm
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by skippydm » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:49 pm

simonatack wrote:At the risk of sounding like a complete numpty, just how do I go from being a 'casual collector who will be stuffed' (actually, a very serious collector who has travelled the world in search of swords.) to being a Novice martial artist who can keep on purchasing. Who/ where do I contact?
you would need to join a club, primarily one that trains in sword arts, the only 2 I know who actually use swords are Iai and Gumdo, But i think there are a few more... Most need you to train for a while before they will give you all the papers.

Serious collector, from what i can gather means museum :roll: unless you want Nihonto which is Good if you got £10grand to spare, From what i have read its only swords from specific smiths that are exempt which will most likely mean a lot more than £10k :evil:

Do a google search for Iai clubs in your area, should throw up a few places ;)

loggin
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by loggin » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:08 pm

I've just started Iaido and have yet not got a sword, and won't have the money to purchase one till the end of the month (at least not a good quality blade), now if exemptions apply for martial artists how is this going to be enforced ? ? I'm thinking as a martial artist I'll have to order in from overseas, then challenge customs and excise when they impound it and prove to them that I meet the exemption criteria!!

It's stupid as well as all british suppliers will only be able to sell their stocks overseas

simonatack
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Re: New Consultation to ban all swords

Post by simonatack » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:41 pm

Thank you both, Skip and Loggin for your answers. I think the point about availabillity and customs problems are very worrying as to how does one, regardless of price, get hold of a sword as training equipment? And how would, lets say, a youngster with little money, get started in a sport where the essential training item is going to cost more than a reasonable 2nd hand car..if he/she can obtain a sword in the first place. Somehow the quoted remark about having to be a Rothschild isn't looking too far off the mark, it would seem. 10k would buy you a very nice original Katana, made around 1680s to 1730s at auction. Especially at US auctions for bid-buying in Dollars, where there are some beauties on offer right now.

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