Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

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Loz
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Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby Loz » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:33 am

AMENDMANT HAS PASSED, hand forged Samurai Swords are legal to purchase again.

There is an amendment currently making it's way through parliment which will essentially exempt traditionally made samurai swords from the ban, no matter where they are made, that is, If I have read and understood the EXPLANATORY MEMORANDUM correctly.

This will mean that chen swords and even some of the masahiro range will once again be available to purchase. I'll update this thread once I've got more details but though this was worth sharing.


A copy of the draft is below;


EXPLANATORY MEMORANDUM TO
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 1988 (OFFENSIVE WEAPONS) (AMENDMENT No. 2)
ORDER 2008
2008 No. Draft
1. This explanatory memorandum has been prepared by the Home Office and is laid before
Parliament by Command of Her Majesty.
2. Description
2.1 On 6 April 2008, the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons)
(Amendment) Order 2008 came into force banning the sale, hire, manufacture and import
of certain curved swords, subject to defences for legitimate uses. This instrument
broadens the defence which allows for the continued trade in genuine curved swords, so
that it applies to swords made anywhere in the world, not just in Japan. It also introduces
a defence for curved swords for use in religious ceremonies.
2.2 These changes are being made in response to representations made by interested
parties following a Parliamentary undertaking given by the Parliamentary Under
Secretary of State for Crime Reduction.
3. Matters of special interest to the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments
3.1 None.
4. Legislative Background
4.1 Under section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (section 141), it is an offence
to manufacture, sell, hire (etc) a weapon specified in an Order made under that section.
The importation of any such weapon is also prohibited. Importation in breach of this
prohibition can lead to criminal liability under section 50(2) or (3) of the Customs and
Excise Management Act 1979 (section 50). 18 descriptions of weapons have been
specified under section 141, including butterfly knives, knuckledusters and batons.
These weapons are listed in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order
1988 (the 1988 Order).
4.2 The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008
added swords with a curved blade of 50 centimetres or over in length to the 1988 Order.
The Government accepted that there are certain legitimate uses of such swords and so the
instrument provided for certain defences to the offences under section 141 and section 50
mentioned above.
4.3 One of these defences was for genuine swords made in Japan. Collectors have
made representations that this defence does not account for non-Japanese swords of
cultural and historical significance. Makers of high value curved swords in England and
Wales, hand-made according to traditional methods, have also made representations that
the ban unfairly impacts on their business. The Government is moving quickly to address
these concerns to ensure legitimate business is safeguarded. This instrument accordingly
changes the defence to remove the references to Japan, and applies the defence to any
curved swords made before 1954 and any curved swords hand-made at any other time
according to traditional methods.
4.4 The Order also creates a defence for the manufacture, sale, hire and import of
curved swords for use in ‘religious ceremonies’ recognising that curved swords can be an
integral part of Sikh wedding ceremonies.
4.5 This Order is consistent with commitments provided by the Parliamentary Under
Secretary of State for Crime Reduction in First Delegated Legislation Committee meeting
held on Monday 17 March 2008 during which he provided an undertaking to listen to
representations of groups concerned that their legitimate use of items covered by the
Order had been adversely affected (column 13 in attached link -
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 17/80317s0
1.htm)
5. Territorial Extent and Application
5.1 This instrument applies to England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
6. European Convention on Human Rights
6.1 Vernon Coaker, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, has made the following
statement regarding Human Rights:
“In my view the provisions of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons)
(Amendment No. 2) Order 2008 are compatible with the Convention rights”.
7. Policy background
7.1 The Government has been concerned for some time about the use of offensive
weapons in violent crime. Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 gives the
Secretary of State a power to specify weapons by Order. Where such weapons are
specified, it is an offence to manufacture, sell, hire (etc) them and their importation is
prohibited. The availability of such weapons is therefore significantly restricted.
7.2 Recently, the Government has been concerned in particular by a number of
reports of weapons described as “samurai swords” being used in violent crime, including
murders. Police advice is that portability and availability of these swords make them the
weapon of choice for growing numbers of young men with criminal intentions.
7.3 A consultation paper was published on 5 March 2007 detailing proposals to ban
samurai swords and other weapons which have no legitimate use which gave a 12 week
period for submission of views. The closing date for the consultation was 28 May 2007.
7.4 The Consultation Paper asked a number of questions regarding proposals to ban
samurai swords and other offensive weapons, including about the definition and whether
there should be a defence for genuine swords and for martial arts practitioners. The 270
responses to the Consultation were summarised in a “summary of responses” paper
which is contained in the link below (together with the consultation paper itself).
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ ... e-weapons/
7.5 The majority of responses were from individual collectors, martial arts enthusiasts
and retailers. These groups were against a ban, but in favour of certain exemptions should
a decision be taken to ban samurai swords. Law enforcement agencies, a victims group
and a number of individuals were in favour of a ban with varying views on exemptions.
Responses made a good case for framing defences to account for collectors of genuine
high-value samurai swords of historical and cultural significance, and for use in
connection with reputable martial arts associations.
7.6 In response to the consultation, on 6 April 2008 the Government added swords
with a curved blade of 50cm or over to the 1988 Order and included defences for
collectors of genuine Japanese swords, swords used in historical re-enactments and
swords used by martial arts enthusiasts. These defences allowed legitimate use without
undermining the effectiveness of the ban. The Government sought to balance the views
of the many collectors, historical re-enactors and martial arts enthusiasts against the
position adopted by law enforcement agencies and victims organisations, reflecting the
views of wider communities, who thought a ban necessary and proportionate to tackle the
menace of violent crime involving these weapons.
7.7 The Northern Ireland Office ran a consultation on ‘The Law on Knives in
Northern Ireland’ from July – October 2006. Whilst this paper dealt with knife crime in
general, it specifically sought views on adding ‘samurai sword’ type weapons to the 1988
Order. All 9 responses to that point agreed that such weapons should be added to the
offensive weapons list albeit with exemption criteria.
7.8 This instrument is being made to address the concerns of collectors by allowing
the continued trade in collectable military swords e.g. First and Second World War
swords. It also addresses concerns of makers of high value curved swords in England and
Wales who have made representations that the ban impacts unfairly on their business.
This instrument therefore broadens the existing defence for genuine Japanese curved
swords so that it applies to any curved swords made before 1954 and any curved swords
hand-made at any other time according to traditional methods. It also introduces a
defence for the sale, hire and import of curved swords for use in religious ceremonies.
These defences do not impact adversely on the intention behind the ban to target the
cheaply available curved swords used in violent crime. Defences for sporting purposes
and historical re-enactments remain unchanged. The amendments have the support of the
Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO).
7.9 The Home Office will be publishing guidance to courts and law enforcement
agencies in a Home Office Circular. The Home Office and the Northern Ireland Office
also intend to issue guidance on the ban to the general public.
8. Impact
8.1 A Regulatory Impact Assessment has not been prepared for this instrument as it
has no substantive impact on business, charities or voluntary bodies. It will not impose or
reduce costs and what marginal impact for business there is will be positive in allowing
the continued trade in collectable curved swords of historical significance and allowing
continued manufacture of high value curved swords in England and Wales according to
traditional methods.
8.2 The Home Office has agreed to keep costs to the criminal justice system under
review though the anticipated costs are expected to be minimal such that they should be
absorbed by HMCS and the legal aid fund.
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Cool McSerious
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Re: Great News . . . I think

Postby Cool McSerious » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:17 pm

Interesting.

I'm scared if I say anything else then all hope will be dashed.
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Loz
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Re: Great News . . . I think

Postby Loz » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:53 pm

Wel it's passed, we can now sell any samurai swords which are made entirely by hand. We currently have some on the way and are sourcing more now, as well as a welcome return to our own branded swords which did so well earlier in the year. I'm waiting for clarification from Chen on how the make their swords but I am fairly certain they will still be covered by the ban as many are machine assisted.
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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby the blade master » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:39 pm

thanks laurence now we can start collecting again good news indeed :D
now i can start saving for that bushido eh how long before we see them
on site again.
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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby Cool McSerious » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:27 pm

I think I speak for everyone (in classic British understatement) when I say...

Oh good.











WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby the blade master » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 pm

thats what i like to see real enthusiasm :D
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Kentofski
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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby Kentofski » Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:46 am

at last, a victory ...

I have returned >D

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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby the blade master » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:32 am

Kentofski wrote:at last, a victory ...

I have returned >D

WHY :D
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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby Big Lazy » Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:02 pm

Surely Hanwei swords have gotta be included as hand made. Yeah I know they use machines to 'assist' them (as shown on their DVD) but then again dont all the cheaper makes do this too, especially with their 'machine etched' hamons etc? Cheness swords use machines to make their swords now too, its said so on their website and on their promotional video clip so I wonder if they'll be accepted?
Pimp or die baby!

draconacticus
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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby draconacticus » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:25 am

Happy days!

Will this also extend to other handmade curved swords? Any chance of seeing a Chen Song Sword back on the site anytime soon?

Glad to see common sense prevailed in the end.

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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby loggin » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:08 am

sweet at last they've seen some sense

as an aside
Was reading the Sun newspaper the other day and almost sent them a complaint as they had a picture of a police officer holding a katana in relation to an offence and said they offenders used a "Razor sharp samurai sword", when clearly it was a cheap imitation, the tsuba was a goldy colour (if it was a genuine sword then that would make it worth thousands) plus the officer had his fingers wrapped around the blade, now as anyone who's handled a blade knows you daren't get the blade edge near your flesh as it so easily slices you open !! :evil:

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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby Big Lazy » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:10 am

The Sun wouldn't give two sh*ts about your complaint mate
Pimp or die baby!

loggin
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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby loggin » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:34 pm

I know thats why I didn't bother in the end!

Anyway I'm well chuffed about the amendment but find it laughable that I still need to prove my eligibility to get an Iaito!

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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby the blade master » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:04 pm

Larnz wrote:The Sun wouldn't give two sh*ts about your complaint mate


hi larns you can always use it to wipe your :moon: when you,ve finished :twisted:
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Re: Great News ' Samurai Sword Legal to collectors'

Postby DarkEntity » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:46 pm

Im surprised it was changed so quickly, usual bittish law takes an age and a day to pass...

good news all round though :)


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