Most effective martial arts in a Street fight

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nagashima
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Most effective martial arts in a Street fight

Postby nagashima » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:13 am

Iv been reading this forum with intrest, especially the differing opinions of the most effective martial arts,
for instance i have studied Ju JItsu for 15 years on and off and been in four diffrent clubs (due to moving homes no other reason)

I dont think it really holds true that one art is vastly superiotr to another

.
for instance the first ju jitsu club i went to and trained for 5 years was all about street fighting, and our sensai would put us in lots of diffrent senarios that u might get into, in a pub 4 instance and there was a lot of enphasis on grappelling, flloor work , wall work, and what to do when attacked with a bottle or knife, and we learned variouse forms of break fall on hard surfaces (ur not going to have mats to land on out on the street),there was an emphasis on grabs and how to remove them, and lots and lots of blocking practice, as far as kicks were concerned we learned only 2 the front snap kick and the side snap kick......and we were told to practice and practice them until they were second nature, there were elements of

thei boxing in there as well with Powerfull knee and elbow teqniques...in short we went in there to train hard

the other ju jitsu clubs have seemed to more concerned with correct pronunciation, formality and gradings, and telling me that my previous sensai had taught me incorrectly, i must admit i found it difficult to block a diffrent way after so long....a bit of Old Dog syndrome i think.

I doupt wether any martial artist would say that their art was inferior to others ....but her is my list of very efective martial arts

1 ju jitsu
2 go ju ru Karate
3 wing chun kung fu
4 thuy boxing
5 Ikedo
6 Ike jutsu

this list is only my opinion, and like any martial arts u can only call your self a martial artist in your chosen art after many years of practice and commitment, you will only get out of any art what u put into it. (H)
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Master the Mind-Master the Sword.
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Moon
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Postby Moon » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:01 am

Most effective martial arts in a Street fight ?
"Ain't no such animal" ....IMO.
Train as long and as hard as you like in any MA and it will stand you in good stead but when it comes to the "Real Deal",your preferred style,basic instinct and training will kick in,if you have self discilpine.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say: fools because they have to say something"...Plato

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most effective martial arts

Postby nagashima » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:26 am

MoonShadow wrote:Most effective martial arts in a Street fight ?
"Ain't no such animal" ....IMO.
Train as long and as hard as you like in any MA and it will stand you in good stead but when it comes to the "Real Deal",your preferred style,basic instinct and training will kick in,if you have self discilpine.


I agree with everything you say, apart from:
some martial arts, have been adapted for the european fighting arena.

there are certain martial arts which stick to a very traditional japanese or chinese style of fighting and there fore have weaknessess when fighting against a boxer or street fight, i think that at the higher levels they may have more effectivness, but for the lower grades they would be of little use.
saying that however, in a fight or competition it is extremely important to have airobic fittness, its no good being a great MA if you get knackered after 1 minuit.or less...you will then become inneffective,

So something like running regulaly should be high on an Martial Artists LIst of prioprities(in my opinion)

but at the end of the day a good MA should have nothing to prove and therfore, find it easyer to avoid conflict, by not acting like a victim. :D
an Evil Mind makes an evil Sword.

Master the Mind-Master the Sword.

TOSHIRO MIFUNE(SWORD OF DOOM)

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Re: most effective martial arts

Postby Moon » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:07 pm

nagashima wrote:
MoonShadow wrote:Most effective martial arts in a Street fight ?
"Ain't no such animal" ....IMO.
Train as long and as hard as you like in any MA and it will stand you in good stead but when it comes to the "Real Deal",your preferred style,basic instinct and training will kick in,if you have self discilpine.


I agree with everything you say, apart from:
some martial arts, have been adapted for the european fighting arena.

Errrrrm,I think you'll find that I never actually said that. :S

Banzai Joe,wtf? and others had best pick up on this one.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say: fools because they have to say something"...Plato

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Postby Sam » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:31 pm

Street fighting...
Is the dirtiest, most f*cking horrible, painfull, sh*tty fight you can get in.
simply because you dont know whats going to happen and you cant pretend you do because you dont... :S
you could hit a man 20 30 times then get knocked out in one shot.
like moonshadow said - all you can do is learn as much of everything as you can then develope YOUR OWN fighting stlye.
its the best way because martial artists will tell you "oh this is better than that" etc - why not do a few years here a few months there. mix and match your stlye, get hard, get fitt.
"Can't kill a man without knowin' for sure you ought too..."

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Postby roymunsen » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:08 pm

most real fights end up on the floor so unless you crack em in the chin first you'd have to hope you were stronger than the other bloke. best thing to do is talk yourself out of it or walk away because so many idiots don't know when to stop a fight.

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Postby wtf? » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:43 pm

im gonna weigh in, but not at the mo... just letting you guys know im about

to be continued.....


So something like running regulaly should be high on an Martial Artists LIst of prioprities(in my opinion)


to be honest... something like running is a bit useless, for self defence based combat..... running only increases your skill, and stamina in running.

5 minutes spent on a jog, could be minutes spent on a heavy bag, pads, or other such aerobic, martial arts based, training.

ive heard the same with other guys, when it comes to weight training... they spend 2hrs a week in the dojo, but 6hrs a week in a gym. that means that they only actually train for combat, about 25% of the time.... hardly street effective training.

things like weights, running, gyms etc DO give an advantage, to an extent.... but time NOT spent in a dojo, is time not spent training for the street... and training... even aerobic, and anerobic training need to be type specific, and relivent.

most real fights end up on the floor so unless you crack em in the chin first you'd have to hope you were stronger than the other bloke. best thing to do is talk yourself out of it or walk away because so many idiots don't know when to stop a fight.


gaining knowlege in ground fighting might help, as well.

the martial arts cant be viewed on such a broard spectrum... by whole arts.

ive seen a ju-jutsu class to be 'softer' than aikido, and the next month, another class looking like it was training for the regional bear wressling comp.
it really does depend on the instructor.... he dictates the class, and the level of 'street' effectiveness involved, in it.

street effectiveness has a lot to do with reality... something most dojo dont have.

shouting
screaming
swearing
biting
scratching
and a whole host of other such things.

most these things are highly frowned upon by most dojo... yet they preach to be street effective.

as for a general concensus.... ju-jutsu and JKD are probally the best arts (if you take their idea's literally)
its got nothing to do with their techniques... they change from dojo, to dojo.
its that those 2 arts... at their purest.... dont discount any technique, or idea whatsoever, as long as that technique, or idea will help them win an encounter.

so thats about it.... any art that has NO limitation on it, will be the best art... regardless of its name.
Last edited by wtf? on Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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Postby the_haggis » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:13 pm

The above post sounds a lot like ninjitsu. Learn the basics of how to move and respond and then develop your own style based on your own body and what works for you...

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Postby wtf? » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:19 pm

except they limit their techniques.

most schools ive ever seen dont bother with much, if any groundwork... and about 90% of all encounters will end on the floor.

they also teach ancient weapons. swords, and such. sinse the number of swords lying about, in the local club, is minimal... their wasting a LOT of time with useless techniques (from a self defence standpoint).

thats what i mean when i say that most 'street arts' forget about reality.
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Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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which art is best in a street fight

Postby nagashima » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:44 pm

wtf? wrote:im gonna weigh in, but not at the mo... just letting you guys know im about

to be continued.....


So something like running regulaly should be high on an Martial Artists LIst of prioprities(in my opinion)


to be honest... something like running is a bit useless, for self defence based combat..... running only increases your skill, and stamina in running.

5 minutes spent on a jog, could be minutes spent on a heavy bag, pads, or other such aerobic, martial arts based, training.

ive heard the same with other guys, when it comes to weight training... they spend 2hrs a week in the dojo, but 6hrs a week in a gym. that means that they only actually train for combat, about 25% of the time.... hardly street effective training.

things like weights, running, gyms etc DO give an advantage, to an extent.... but time NOT spent in a dojo, is time not spent training for the street... and training... even aerobic, and anerobic training need to be type specific, and relivent.

most real fights end up on the floor so unless you crack em in the chin first you'd have to hope you were stronger than the other bloke. best thing to do is talk yourself out of it or walk away because so many idiots don't know when to stop a fight.


gaining knowlege in ground fighting might help, as well.

the martial arts cant be viewed on such a broard spectrum... by whole arts.

ive seen a ju-jutsu class to be 'softer' than aikido, and the next month, another class looking like it was training for the regional bear wressling comp.
it really does depend on the instructor.... he dictates the class, and the level of 'street' effectiveness involved, in it.

street effectiveness has a lot to do with reality... something most dojo dont have.

shouting
screaming
swearing
biting
scratching
and a whole host of other such things.

most these things are highly frowned upon by most dojo... yet they preach to be street effective.

as for a general concensus.... ju-jutsu and JKD are probally the best arts (if you take their idea's literally)
its got nothing to do with their techniques... they change from dojo, to dojo.
its that those 2 arts... at their purest.... dont discount any technique, or idea whatsoever, as long as that technique, or idea will help them win an encounter.

so thats about it.... any art that has NO limitation on it, will be the best art... regardless of its name.


I am in agreeance with most of what you say,

apart from the bit about running not being very important for a MA.
i will have to disagree with you there,
its about stamina, why do u think that Boxers?
So they can go 10.... 3 minit rounds....stamina in a street fight is as important as ability as skill and tecnique

speaking from experience,unless you are able to finish it quickly, your average bod in the street will probably be knackered within a minuit of hard scrappin, so even if he is a good fighter and able to take a good few punches....Stamina will win out in the end.

i think Bag work, Regular exercise, and repetition with weights are also very important, as well as training regulaly and hard in your chosen martial art :D
an Evil Mind makes an evil Sword.

Master the Mind-Master the Sword.

TOSHIRO MIFUNE(SWORD OF DOOM)

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Re: which art is best in a street fight

Postby Banzai Joe » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:02 am

nagashima wrote:I am in agreeance with most of what you say,

apart from the bit about running not being very important for a MA.
i will have to disagree with you there,
its about stamina, why do u think that Boxers?
So they can go 10.... 3 minit rounds....stamina in a street fight is as important as ability as skill and tecnique

speaking from experience,unless you are able to finish it quickly, your average bod in the street will probably be knackered within a minuit of hard scrappin, so even if he is a good fighter and able to take a good few punches....Stamina will win out in the end.

i think Bag work, Regular exercise, and repetition with weights are also very important, as well as training regulaly and hard in your chosen martial art :D


To be fair to wtf, you were talking about running as MA training for street stamina. Like wtf was implying street fights aren't like the hollywood 30 minute brawls, they rarely last more than a couple of drunken punches.
And the better the MA/combat fighter/whatever you wanna call it, the better economy of movement they are likely to have and thus need to exert themselves less.
My aikido kancho is 65, overweight and doesn't tire out when he has 5 yudansha attacking him and he defeats them all.
This thread will most likely travel some distance, but most will still say 'whatever works for you, learn as much as you can and adapt it' (its already been said about 3 times).
For my part, take kendo, now, most uneducated people think its purely sport, but i would put any kendoka who knows how to apply a punch or a strangle in against most other combatants. Why? Because any decent kendoka can enter your zone/space with such split second timing that you are left with no distance to swing a punch or kick. I can do this better and faster now than when i taught kickboxing 15 years ago. So thats one thing that kendo can contribute to being an all-round street combatant.
Aikido; body movement, this is something i'd rely on in just about every situation. Kickboxing; the ability to kick and punch.
Ninjitsu; those bloody devastating stomp and snap kicks.
Even karate; if you can land a proper uraken or punch in the right area, then chances are your opponent wouldn't be getting up.
And i would make an educated guess that every art that someone cares to mention will have something to offer above all others in a street situation.
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Postby wtf? » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:23 am

i didnt say that stamina wasnt important... i just said that running wasnt the best combative fittness training.

a 2hr run will help increase stamina by 'x' amount.... 2 hrs of bagwork, etc will gain you the same 'amount' of stamina, but will have the added bonus of being type specific.

tasking time out to run, or go to the gym, is time taken away from training. a much better use of time would be drills, bagwork, padwork, etc.... something specific to combat.

running only increases your running stamina, and your skill in running. building muscle at the gym, will most likely hinder you, after you get past a certain point... and in the meantime, your wasting time that could be spent training.

simply put... 2 sessions a week... 1 dojo, 1 gym,

thats 2 hrs spent only increasing stamina, and 2 learning technique.

or 2 dojo sessions a week. 1 technique, and 1 running drills, working out on pads, or a bag.... gaining the same as you would from a gym... but type specific.

which one is going to be the more combat effective training?
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Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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the best form of fitness for martial arts

Postby nagashima » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:17 pm

My only reason for starting this thread...was because i wanted to have a lively debate with martial artists who enjoy ther art as much as i do, and to possibly learn something new in the proccess, about other combat effective techniques,

i have no problem with people disagreeing with any thing i say, i have really enjoyed chatting with you...and correct me if im wrong but that is the purpose of forums?

also you all seem to know one another so are you a panel of "experts" who are more used to "answering questions" than being challenged on what you know or having a lively debate on subjects with Martial Artists who may be able to share knowledge and experiance with you as equals,

unfortunately the written word is not the best form of communication, and missunderstandings can take place easily, as there is no face to face contact.

But thank you all for indulging me, and i hope that in future, i will be able to add to others threads, or start more of my own.
an Evil Mind makes an evil Sword.

Master the Mind-Master the Sword.

TOSHIRO MIFUNE(SWORD OF DOOM)

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Postby Banzai Joe » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:59 pm

nagashima,
you started a good worthwhile debate m8. Some may disagree with your opinions, as some may with mine, but that just proves the amount of differing experiences we all have regarding this subject. There can NEVER be a right or wrong on this, so don't feel that you are incorrect in saying what you said.
Good thread, good responses, maybe we all learned something from it. What i hope people will do, is comment from knowledge and experience and not from heresay and conjecture, that is what turns discussion into argument. Luckily imho the right people have replied to your post with their, again imho, valued opinions.

We certainly AREN'T experts, :> , we've just been around this forum for a whiles, and have often posted on similar topics of preference.
wtf, is reborn, cos he used to be a t*sser ;), (aint that right wraithy darlin) but his knowledge is very sound and very worth reading. As is Moonshadow. Some even think my own meanderings are worth reading.
BUT, all of us will have had our opinions challenged more than once, no one person here is the all-seeing, all-knowing. So feel free to challenge, ask, or advise as you see fit.
Oh.....and welcome to the boards!
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Postby Moon » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:10 pm

I don't think that anyone is actually disagreeing with you,just offering different views which may not be the same as yours and there is a difference,like you said,it's what forums are all about.
There's no "Panel of Experts" here and to my knowledge,those who have contributed to this thread so far have never met.I could be wrong but I think that most members would agree that wtf? and Banzai Joe are among,if not the most experienced MA and JSA practitioners who post regularly and take the time to answer questions as and when they arise in a consructive,sometimes critical manner but as stated previously,that's what forums are for.
As for being "challenged" on knowledge,please don't go there. :|
So many "lively debates" end up as flames and get nowhere. :tut:

Last Two lines were not deliberately "poetic" :D
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