Most effective martial arts in a Street fight

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Stazbumpa
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Postby Stazbumpa » Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:24 pm

My (long) tuppence:

MA is about training, training conditions you, and conditioning provides the ability to respond to a given situation. In the army, they call this technique DRILL.

My *personal* belief is that ju-jitsu is one of the better MA's for everyday self defence. There are others that are technically better or more skillfull, but ju-jitsu doesnt require a massive amount of training to get basically good at.

99% of fights, particularly in the pub, are more like a scuffle. Person A glasses/ punches/barges into/looks at the bird of person B and then a fight ensues.
There isnt much room for manoeveure, arms and legs are everwhere, and the clever person will put their opponent down and get out of the way as quickly as possible, for bouncers are hairy men.
Ju-jitsu is great for this because thats what it was originally designed for: close in dispatching of the enemy. Wing Chung Kung Fu and Systema are equally lethal.

However, any MA; be it kick boxing, tai chi or whatever; is better than no MA, but the real key to using it effectively brings me to my next point.

The area that requires the most training, in any MA, is how to respond to an attack and to overcome the natural urge to sh*t yourself. This is why we don't just train to black belt in MA and then stop. Many MA philosophies state that reaching black belt is only the real beginning of your journey. If you train long enough in MA then you'll receive 2 things:

1: You will pull off the required moves, any moves, without thinking about them. They will come naturally to you. In Japan they call this munen, or mushin. It means "no-thoughtness" or "no-mindness". A better way is to say that the MA will feel as natural as breathing, and you don't require conscious thought to breath, right?
2: You will find yourself walking taller and acting more confidently in general, and THAT is the key to not being attacked.
Muggers don't like the quietly confident, it can ruin their day, whereas the ones who walk around as if they're apologising for their existence are a far easier target.

It must be said that confidence can be overdone, and the overconfident, particularly the loud and/or showoffs, will find themselves in serious trouble quite quickly.

Just my thoughts :)
Violence only begets violence?
Well allow me to retort.
Ineffective, unfocused violence leads to more violence. Limp, panicky, half-measures lead to more violence. However, complete, fully thought-through, professional, well-executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see, afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead. Not "on trial," not "re-educated," not "nurtured back into the bosom of love." Dead. D-E--Well, you get the idea.

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grimm
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Postby grimm » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:33 pm

Stazbumpa wrote:2: You will find yourself walking taller and acting more confidently in general, and THAT is the key to not being attacked.
Muggers don't like the quietly confident, it can ruin their day, whereas the ones who walk around as if they're apologising for their existence are a far easier target.


i used to think this way until someone started waving a knife in my face in on a busy street in broad daylight (about 3pm in summer).

and there really wasn't a lot i could do about it, as i'm not prepared to take the risk of being stabbed. walking taller or acting more confident is rather null and void in that situation. i was also with 2 friends at the time who have absolutely no training, and didn't want to put them at risk. the same would apply if i were with my girlfriend (although nothing like that has happened to me yet when i'v been out with her). in fact i'm not sure how i'd deal with a situation where i was outnumbered or outgunned with my girlfriend or any other loved one present.

i find i panic a lot more in those situations, more due to the fact that i worry for others rather than for myself.

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Postby Banzai Joe » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:00 am

I understand your predicament grimm, everyone's opinions will likely differ according to experiences they've had, but i actually agree totally with stazbumba.
In MA, if you take it seriously enough and encompass the concepts and philosophies, not just the physical aspects, its totally possible to defeat an opponent using kigurai (demeanor), if they aint high or drunk and they're just looking to proof their manliness, then confidently standing your ground and maybe adopting a posture that shows awareness and readiness to do combat can very often perturb them.

Its like the 'bouncer' who is only 5ft 6in tall. People think, "he ain't big enough to be a doorman, but then others think "aaah.....but he must know some stuff to be on the door!"
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most effective martial arts

Postby nagashima » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:45 pm

stazzbumpa
i am most certainly in agreement with all that you have said and consider myself to be of the same mind (or no mind) :D when dealing with "situations". (H) well put m8
an Evil Mind makes an evil Sword.
Master the Mind-Master the Sword.
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Stazbumpa
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Postby Stazbumpa » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:02 pm

used to think this way until someone started waving a knife in my face in on a busy street in broad daylight (about 3pm in summer).


I think you're missing the point of what I'm trying to say. The chance of you getting mugged is small to begin with, and "kigurai" (thankyou Banzai Joe, that was the word I was trying to remember :)) lessens that risk even further.

As for your unfortunate incident, I entirely understand your thoughts on the subject. When in doubt, it is best to err on the side of caution, and there is no shame in this. It is also worth remembering that even though violent crime is on the rise, it is still highly unlikely that a knife wielder actually wants to use their weapon.

However, its one thing to take a step back when all he's after is your wallet, but what if he intends to do you harm even if you give in to his demands?? As I said before, the key is the right frame of mind and this is the best form of prevention but, if the worst happens, will also provide the cure.
Violence only begets violence?

Well allow me to retort.

Ineffective, unfocused violence leads to more violence. Limp, panicky, half-measures lead to more violence. However, complete, fully thought-through, professional, well-executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see, afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead. Not "on trial," not "re-educated," not "nurtured back into the bosom of love." Dead. D-E--Well, you get the idea.



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grimm
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Postby grimm » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:00 pm

i agree with you all on a lot of points. i think a lot of you are assuming that situations that arise will be fair fights though.

also i'v noticed that 90% of the time people will only attack you if they have an advantage in numbers. (the only times people have attempted to start a fight with me there has always been at least 1 more person in their group)

how would you all feel about taking on multiple opponents? i know that i wouldn't want to try it. i'm relatively confident i could put someone out of a fight if i took the initiative and took the first strike, however at that point does it put me in the wrong because the act of aggression would be coming from my side first? i'm pretty sure it does...

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Postby Adurul » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:22 pm

Id say wing chun.

Basically cos its all the dirty bits of kungfu with all the fancy crap taken out. Also because its fought at close quarters, so if you can mantain a close enough distance to whoever you are fighting, they wont be able to attack you as effectively as you can attack them. Theres nothin defensive about wing chung as far as i am aware.
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Postby darksun_uk » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:59 pm

my preference is to use my wits or failing that a good sucker punch works wonders i find, after all is said and done all you really need is a basic armoury of basic kicks punches plus a few blocks/throws and a disarm or 2 etc and some regular practice and if possible a bit of sparring(plus target awareness and controlled aggression) and you will be above the level of the average street fighter/thug who rely on speed surprise and loud aggresive posturing to do there job for them for the most part, tactical awarness is the most important aspect, walk down the wrong street or say the wrong thing in certain situations and your as good as dead, the rest is down to luck and personal skill should your awareness fail or lady luck depart...(imho)

formal arts that you can easily pick up a good range of usefull skills from are as mentioned ju jitsu kickboxing and wing chun..assuming you dont want to exclusively study one art as a hobby/pastime in which case i would lean towards wing chun..or JKD if an instructor is near you.



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Jaques

Postby Jaques » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:25 pm

Gotta be a weapon one - how bout unleashing kendo skills with a real sword? In the ring I've noticed Muay Tai seems to be best, but thats possibly due to the restrictions the rules have on other arts.

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Banzai Joe
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Postby Banzai Joe » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:53 am

Jaques wrote:Gotta be a weapon one - how bout unleashing kendo skills with a real sword? In the ring I've noticed Muay Tai seems to be best, but thats possibly due to the restrictions the rules have on other arts.


which is possibly why muay thai would be real effective on the streets. Any MA where you have to learn to pull your punches can be dangerous to yourself on the street. You can be so used to 'not' hitting forcefully that your attacked could just wade through your punch or kick and nail you.
Muay thai on the other hand deals with vicious knee and elbow blows and i'd lke to see someone get up after a crossed elbow to the jaw. If he does, well then he deserves your wallet :)
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koga
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Postby koga » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:29 pm

nagashima you forgot one martial art made for that sort of thing............ninjutsu it was made not only for assassinations but for self defence which would you feel safer with a style that has more ritual then moves or a system built for fighting?

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wtf?
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Postby wtf? » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:12 pm

koga wrote:nagashima you forgot one martial art made for that sort of thing............ninjutsu it was made not only for assassinations but for self defence which would you feel safer with a style that has more ritual then moves or a system built for fighting?


please stop it... just... NO... bad newbie. no ninja here. and ninjutsu is almost entirely based in outdated techniques, and ritual. it also wasnt made for 'assassination purposes'

so your point is moot. go read up on the arts before you comment on them, please. and i dont mean comic books, and watching movies. nor do i mean recounting what your mates said down the pub... should you be old enough to drink.
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Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

Angelus

Postby Angelus » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:17 pm

Koga, don't take offense at wtf? he can take a bit of getting used to, although he is very knowledgable in such things so bear that in mind. I would ask you not to resurect dead threads unless there is a legitimate resparking of the conversation however. The last post in this thread before yours was in november of last year

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Postby wtf? » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:24 pm

yeah... in all fairness, i can be nasty, and its sometimes unwarrented. this is possibly an example of that. but i do try to help, and have worthwhile points to make sometimes.

so yeah... ignore me, get used to me, or dissregard me... but dont take me personally.
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Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

koga
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Postby koga » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:04 pm

sorry but i didnt know im new to forums i just post what i think


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