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what is the best martial arts

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:21 pm
by nagashima
Thanks for yours replys :D

and welcomes to the forum 8)

im glad you took the time to get involved, and We'll chat again soon....youl probably see my replys or posts on the sword forums also as im an Iaito practitioner as well as a ju-jitsuka.....(funny old word)

at present i am most happy doing sword kata... The only problem is... you dont need agreat deal of space to practice ju-jitsu....where as Iaido is a diffrent matter...altogether (i live in a flat)...not the ideal environment for practice LOL :D
I'll probably end up chopping up furnature...or MUCH more importantly damaging my sword....

.still i manage to get some practice outside at night in my back garden

Its obviouse to me that you guys know what you are talking about, and Banzie i have wanted to do Aikido for a long time but unfortunately there are no classes in my area of Kent....i have practiced iki-jutsu (which i think Is similar...but closer to Ju-jitsu) but any art that involves using your apponents wheight and speed against him im all for as effective combat teqnique :D

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:52 am
by grimm
someone posted earlier about fights that get onto the floor.

i think something like judo or wrestling would hold you in good stead in such a situation.

in a stand up fight though i'd have to say it depends on the size difference of yourself and your opponent. i myself being quite small in stature (i'm about 5'8 and just over 9 stone), am not sure if just dishing out some punches would be able to take down a 6'4 13 stone dude. your average scally will go down if you land a punch to the nose and try to break it though (beware though, they hunt in packs :)).

in a street fight in certain situations you're probably going to have to fight dirty as well as use any training you have to gain and advantage, because people will almost certainly do the same to you. you've also gotta hope and pray that your opponent in such a situation isn't trained and is going to rely on brute force to take you down. you can't assume any of this though.

i personally think being aware is one of the biggest strengths in a street fight, such as taking in the details of your surroundings. taking a backward step and falling over a bar stool or something and you're not gonna get very far.

most effective martial arts

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:37 am
by nagashima
i think your saying never undertestimate your apponent,and being aware of your surroundings can only be a wise move, i would add to your list by saying use your surroundings to your advantage, ie having your back to a wall means you cant be attacked from behind, some ju-jitsu teachers teach extensive wall fighting moves (if you can slam ur apponent into a wall its game over

about your point about weight diffrence, in aikido, aiki-jutsu and ju-jitsu you are taught a lot of moves that use your apponents weight and speed against him so therefore your smaller stature would be to your advantage

Look at the japanese... generally they are quite small in stature(im generallising i know) its not unusuall that the most effective forms
of martial arts that involve using ur opponents weight against them were origonated in japan.

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:55 am
by Banzai Joe
Someone change MS's title to 'the poet swordsman' :)

Nagashima, i'm sure if you hunted around you'd find aikido in Kent. I've studied aikido for about 11 years and aiki-jujutsu for about 18 months now.
I also study iaido and kendo.
From your last post it sounds like you're iaido training is 'you practicing in your own time' Is this correct? Or do you have a dojo that you learn at?

Back to the street/pub brawl thingy. You'd need to be good aikidoka to be able to manage a much bigger opponent effectively if you're in a rough and tumble situation like a pub brawl. Its one thing to evade the enemy, but you will need to be offensive as well, so maybe arts which rely on strategic strikes to immobilising areas will help.

effective martial arts in a street fight

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:46 am
by nagashima

I do have a dojo and sensai for Iaidi.....
i just like to practice as much as i can
im not a fair weather MA
and besides there are so many nuances to the first twelve kata that you can't practive your teqnique to much.

you do have to be rather proficient at aikido or aiki-jutsu to be able to use it effectivly in a brawl.....i suppose my thinking is coming from were i'm at (as regards to MA proficiency) and my own experience of being in a few "sticky" situations.

and as an Ikidoka i wonder what your opinion is on Steven segal and his arse kicking ability which seems pretty awsome to me and quite correct in its application (i beleive he is a 5th Dan in aikido) im aware that martial arts is poncified a bit for the 8)

his later films are rather lame affairs, but he really kicks bad guy butt in the first 3

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:37 pm
by Banzai Joe
first 12 kata eh? I take it you're learning seitei gata as part of the ZKNR?

As far as Segal goes, i've read loads of gumf about him. He's 7th dan now, but a lot of folk say he was gifted a few of them due to his first father-in-law being high up in some organisation or other.
I do like the action in his earlier films, as they demonstrate basic technique in aikido, albeit quite agressively.
I have a media file, its a compilation of him doing aikido, during training or seminars etc (not film clips) some very old. Its good and inciteful. He certainly knows his stuff.

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:27 pm
by nagashima
first 12 kata eh? I take it you're learning seitei gata as part of the ZKNR?

please excuse my ignorance regarding the above as my teacher has not asked me thus far, to be aware of japanese names for the katas i am learning, as i am relativly new(but very enthusiastic)to the game. and my knowledge of Iaido terminolagy is limited (but i am enthusiastically hoovering it up at a high rate)

and i am just concentrating on learning the movements........especially the foot work which as im sure you'll agree is fundimentally diffrent to empty hand styles of martial arts,
as there seems to be no neccessity to keep the weight forward and on the front leg and the rear foot out at a 45degree angle.

i thoink that i am doing rather well though considering my footwork has been diffrent for many many years. :D

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:38 pm
by Banzai Joe
Horse for courses m8, but surely your sensei should/is teaching you the terminology. The japanese termed concepts that form iaido are of paramount importance.
Fushin, Fudoshin, Mushin, Sen no sen, go no sen, sen sen no sen, kigurai, kokoro.

I'm not gonna turn this into a bashing of your school nagashima, honestly. But i'm just suprised that you don't know any terminology at all. what about dojo etiquette?

Does he just say, "stick your right leg forward then make a straight cut!" :|

I don't know of anyone who learns iai in a dojo and doesn't first learn some terminology.

Aah well, we live and learn. :dunno:

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:24 pm
by Moon
Someone change MS's title to 'the poet swordsman'
It has been stated that the old song "Poetry in Motion" befitted my personna somewhat. 8)

I can't recall what idiot said it though!! :S

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:48 pm
by Banzai Joe
MoonShadow wrote:
Someone change MS's title to 'the poet swordsman'
It has been stated that the old song "Poetry in Motion" befitted my personna somewhat. 8)

I can't recall what idiot said it though!! :S
Lol, you did! :mrgreen:

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:48 pm
by nagashima
Does he just say, "stick your right leg forward then make a straight cut!"

Works for me m8, :D

i hate to admit it banzai but im a bit of a newbie at iaido so its not that im not being told the terminology im better at remembering the katas than the to dojo ettiqute i have been shown things like how to tie and fold my hakama ,how to tie and wear the sageo, sword terminology and the variouse diffrent ways to ray standing and kneeling.....iv got bloody terminology coming out of my ears....terminology

So iv decided to learn the katas first and pick up the terminology as i go along (if thats alrite by u m8 :???:

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:12 pm
by wtf?
to be honest... all my sensei tend to translate the technique names into english, for us, as much as they can.

as the dojo are more orienteted to combat... it makes more sense to us, to use our native language. it also helps us grasp some of the ideas in the techniques... a lot of the names hold some interesting insights onto the techniques.

karate, and kickboxing are the worst for it, near me....

ive seen it a lot in judo as well.... sutemi-waza being refered too as 'Sacrifice Throws' helps a lot with understanding the pitfalls of a certain technique... where beginers would simply know it as 'another japanese word' and not gain that little bit extra, as early as they do.

it also helps for gradings, etc.... trying to go through a massively hard grading... trying not to throw up, or pass out... another language to remember isnt what you really need.

some simple things get used, and picked up on... but the mainstay of my lessons are in english.

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:05 am
by darkhobo
In my school we learn the English namesfirst , then we learn all the japanese names for the moves we learned before we can test out of the belt, as well as some general termanology.
Also for a street fight, if it is only 1 on 1, best thing you can probly do is to be patient and wait for openings. Your average person on the street isnt going to be a blackbelt in some art (though it could happen). Since they are not trained in any way to fight they will most likely loose their temper and the andreniline(probly buchered the spelling) will start pumping. Though it helps someone like that a lot to have andreniline it also wears off, in when it wears off, so does all the energy they had. So if possible just stay calm and try to not get hit (easier said then done). The andreniline will start to wear down after about 30 seconds, then they are yours :twisted: .

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:16 am
by Banzai Joe
Nagashima, lol, you said it right m8, whatever works for ya. Like i said, i'm not bashing, i was just curious.
As for wtf's training, well its jutsu (combat) based, so i can see your point dude, practicality 1st, then koryu/history/tradition lessons later. I think thats fine also, at least you're maintaining something of the Japanese art.
Personally i prefer to learn the whole hog, its just the way i've been indoctrinated in MA's since i was 14.
As for kendo, well to say most uneducated consider it sport, there is more discpline, etiquette and tradition, in that, than in any other art i've studied.

I'd certainly prefer to hear that someone is learning a sword art from a proficient teacher who only teaches in english, than to hear someone learns the japanese from a book and studies at home on his own.

Just another of my tupp'ny bits

most effective martial arts

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:31 pm
by nagashima
I think its all down to commitment and learning style.......and in an MA like Iaido i cant see how you could do it in half measures, it would take you for ever to learn 1 kata otherwise.

and my particular fast track learning style is to learn the kata first then learn the trminology associated with it....if your thinking long term(which i am) it dosnt make any damn diffrence which way you learn.

in fact in a life and death situation...the terminology is completely irrelevent,

the origins of ju-jitsu way back in the early middle ages on japanese battlefields was unarmed combat teqniques called yoroi-gumi.
were samuri would fight to the death using grappling type,movements,arm locks, leg locks and one arm strangulation moves, :lick:

ther would be little time for nicities, get yor opponent on the deck asap hold him there with one arm. stab him to death with your tanto then cut his head off. (H)

cuts with the tanto would always have to be expertly aimed between the plates in the armour, a lot of traditionall ju-jitsu moves which were used on a battlefield are designed to open up the body armour in order to give an area to strike with the tanto.....thats what it comes down to in reality is the system of martial arts battle worthy, if so it will probably work on the streets........minus the stabbing of course (unless you want to end up in prison for a very long time......... :tut:

so in a difficult situation what is important is that you are ablr to defend yourself and attack to the best of your ability... as many of you have pointed out there are many areas of training needed to be ready for combat........ :D

in my mind the most inportant are Awareness and not being a Victim

beaware of ur surroundings and dont give in to fear...or the dogs will attack 8)