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Kev63
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Postby Kev63 » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:53 pm

16 now, calmed down alot.

Since the day i was born i can remember fighting. I dunno i guess i've got a short fuse.

Someone would say something or hit me messing around and i would just start hitting them. Sounds silly, even to me now.

I've calmed down alot now like. If you were to ask me why i was always in fights..... I dunno. I guess i have a short fuse.
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Moon
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Postby Moon » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:48 pm

Banzai Joe wrote: I'm pretty fit, my reaction are very good, but my mind (until i reach Moonshadows age and start hitting senility :razz:)

:???: Cheeky pup,why if I was 20 years younger,blah,blah,blurb,blurb :D :D :D

The older I get,the better I was 8)

On a more serious note BJ,you and I both know that you need to have an aggressive nature to be accepted into any of the “Elite Forces”,the Royal Marines among the top.
If you don’t possess this “quality” then you are soon weedled out and become one of the 99.9% who need not apply and become either a “craphat” or a civilian again,if you didn’t have it then you would probably never have tried to sign up in the first place,so the point that I’m making is that some people have it,others don’t.
In other words,”You can put the dog into the fight but you can’t put the fight into the dog”.
This IMO is in your genetic make-up from day one and will continue throughout your lifetime.With or without Military or MA training,self defence or defence of others,be they loved ones or sometimes complete strangers who are getting a raw deal,is second nature,regardless of the circumstances which led to you being compromised initially.
If you do have Military and/or MA experience then this is another string to your bow,should you find yourself in a situation that cannot be avoided,which unfortunately does happen from time to time,,too many times for my liking.
“Discretion is the better part of valour” obviously applies if confronted by some nutter with a knife or gun who just wants your wallet and it would be a very foolish person who took an aggressive stance against an armed mugger but if this same psycho was intent on grievously wounding or murdering you,then:-
“The best form of defence is attack”

To be continued.

I ain't done yet..... :D Dinner's ready!!
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Banzai Joe
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Postby Banzai Joe » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:47 am

MoonShadow wrote:
Banzai Joe wrote: I'm pretty fit, my reaction are very good, but my mind (until i reach Moonshadows age and start hitting senility :razz:)

:???: Cheeky pup,why if I was 20 years younger,blah,blah,blurb,blurb :D :D :D

The older I get,the better I was 8)

On a more serious note BJ,you and I both know that you need to have an aggressive nature to be accepted into any of the “Elite Forces”,the Royal Marines among the top.
If you don’t possess this “quality” then you are soon weedled out and become one of the 99.9% who need not apply and become either a “craphat” or a civilian again,if you didn’t have it then you would probably never have tried to sign up in the first place,so the point that I’m making is that some people have it,others don’t.
In other words,”You can put the dog into the fight but you can’t put the fight into the dog”.
This IMO is in your genetic make-up from day one and will continue throughout your lifetime.With or without Military or MA training,self defence or defence of others,be they loved ones or sometimes complete strangers who are getting a raw deal,is second nature,regardless of the circumstances which led to you being compromised initially.
If you do have Military and/or MA experience then this is another string to your bow,should you find yourself in a situation that cannot be avoided,which unfortunately does happen from time to time,,too many times for my liking.
“Discretion is the better part of valour” obviously applies if confronted by some nutter with a knife or gun who just wants your wallet and it would be a very foolish person who took an aggressive stance against an armed mugger but if this same psycho was intent on grievously wounding or murdering you,then:-
“The best form of defence is attack”

To be continued.

I ain't done yet..... :D Dinner's ready!!


Personally MS, thats the best post i've read in here, mainly cos it really says what i've been trying come out with over my past few posts.
Its IS a trait that i think you are born with, or even inherit early on. We all NEED a certain amount of aggression in us, be it physical or a mental type that enables us to achieve status in our daily jobs.

Logan, you asked me to put a percentage on how sure i was of an assailant being armed or unarmed etc? Well, i dunno if i can and not sure if it matters, all i can do is reiterate, i'd either attempt to stop him or i wouldn't. Yes, i'm different to you, but thats down to percentage, eg, out of say, 10 times that we both get accosted, i'd probably react 80% of the time, you, maybe 20%, it doesn't matter as long as we're both safe at the end of the day. But, i'm more likely to act aggressively to protect whats mine, however little it might be, its just my nature, im not gung-ho, but as MS said, there is an ingrained mentally in most military type folk and that inner voice that says "this guy ain't having anything he's not entitled to". and i know that i've faced worse in my life.
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Postby darksun_uk » Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:17 pm

Banzai Joe wrote:
Personally MS, thats the best post i've read in here,


yeah it was good.


Banzai Joe wrote: im not gung-ho, but as MS said, there is an ingrained mentally in most military type folk and that inner voice that says "this guy ain't having anything he's not entitled to". and i know that i've faced worse in my life.


im far from gung ho (trust me) but my attitude is correct and i have skill to back it up not only that but i would if possible manipulate the situation to give my enemy little or better still no chance to even see it coming,my life is simply more important than people who would in effect force that kind of response from me.

winston churchill wrote:there is nothing quite so exciting as being shot at...and missed.


or fixing it so that they dont even see you, (ok its less exciting but you see my point)

bold courage in the light of day or stealth and cunning a warrior should arm themselves with whatever works best and feel NO shame.


MoonShadow wrote: “The best form of defence is attack

!


true, but totally dependent on the situation if your talking about a threatening situation the best form of defense is not to be there in the first place or to resolve the situation without resort to violence, however there is always the unexpected.

also defending against a percieved threat of attack would indicate the threat was faced by you directly when in actual fact as in the case of joe stopping the drunk guy getting beat up the threat was more to his moral sense and so forth as there aggeression was not being directed toward him directly therefore the adage did not apply this is also true about a number of other situations as well, sometimes there is a lot to be said for the art of stealth and cunning though they are less obvious but no less important than skill and focused aggression.


kind regards
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Postby Dr. Egg PHD » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:36 pm

Stealth is always important! In fact, recently i was in a bar, and one guy started a fight with another. I was sitting at a table with some mates. It was about to turn to violence when the starter was distracted by his girlfriend. The victim just took one step back, and dissapeared into the crowd! Completely! The starter couldn't find him, and spent the next ten minutes screaming 'WHERE THE f*ck IS HE?!'


As for wondering whether a mugger potentially has a weapon, although it doesn't work all the time, usually you can predict what the mugger has or hasn't got with his body language. (i'm not saying that you can tell exactally what he has).

Most muggers will want to get out of an attack with little injury to themselves, so if they DO have a weapon, chances are they'll pull it on you the moment they start the attack, to show what they've got or what they'll do. Otherwise they'll most likely have their hands in their pockets holding it, because as much as you don't know them, they don't know you.


The most scary mugger you can come across is a nervous mugger with a gun. It's happened before where the victim has given the mugger what they want, only to be shot in the head because the mugger accidentally pulls the trigger.
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Postby Big Lazy » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:53 pm

My turn for a few words.

I live in Brum as you know and have worked for 5 years in the city centre, till 11pm most nights and you tend to see every form of scum that time of night, be it pissed up idiots, aggressive tramps demanding 'spare change' black or Asian gangs looking for trouble or just plain drugged up scum looking for an easy target to mug.

Quite a few of the feminine men at work have been mugged on their way home from a late shift and one in particular seemed to get robbed on a weekly basis at one point.

I gave him the following advice: Carry with you a spare wallet or a broken mobile phone as these are the two things that muggers are after. Don't hang around trying to negotiate with a mugger either, just throw the spare wallet or knackered phone one way and you run the other way at top speed. No mugger is gonna follow you, they'll follow the wallet/phone instead and they'll be gutted when they find out they've been tricked.
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Postby Banzai Joe » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:13 pm

Dr. Egg PHD wrote:As for wondering whether a mugger potentially has a weapon, although it doesn't work all the time, usually you can predict what the mugger has or hasn't got with his body language. (i'm not saying that you can tell exactally what he has).

Most muggers will want to get out of an attack with little injury to themselves, so if they DO have a weapon, chances are they'll pull it on you the moment they start the attack, to show what they've got or what they'll do. Otherwise they'll most likely have their hands in their pockets holding it, because as much as you don't know them, they don't know you.


spot on eggy, imho :???:

Larny Boy wrote: gave him the following advice: Carry with you a spare wallet or a broken mobile phone as these are the two things that muggers are after. Don't hang around trying to negotiate with a mugger either, just throw the spare wallet or knackered phone one way and you run the other way at top speed. No mugger is gonna follow you, they'll follow the wallet/phone instead and they'll be gutted when they find out they've been tricked.


Excellent idea Larn, another really good post i reckon. :???:

See, its like i was saying earlier, if you always give them what they want, you become a possible repeat victim, and they will undoubtedly think its the easiest money they've ever earned and do it again and probably more often. And Again, i'm not saying take em on if they have a weapon, but why not take em on if they don't. Defend your right not to be victimised!
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Postby wabhimself » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:17 pm

as said many times before, fights are sometimes forced on you or people are being picked on and you cant just sit by and watch, a couple of times i've stood up to neds giving people hassle, the other night l heard a right caffufle outside my house so l went outside to see what was happening and a 20 year was beating the crap out of a 10 year old and the 10 year old was acctually screaming, luckily the guy ran away when he seen me going for him cos l had a truncheon on me and the dude was beating the little guy in my garden so l coulda used it legally, l didnt run after him but l made sure the 10 year old was fine and helped him get home, now l think l handled that pretty well not going after the guy despite him hitting the kid

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Postby darksun_uk » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:36 pm

wabhimself wrote: now l think l handled that pretty well not going after the guy despite him hitting the kid


i applaud your restraint and public spirted action, violence against the weaker members of our society should be challenge whenever it is reasonable to do so (and sometimes when its not due to an adrenaline rush or overpowering sense of righteous anger)

as discussed in the thread so far you took a relatively small risk on your part but gained a potentially huge reward in that the child in question was prevented from getting a serious injury or even ending up dead.

well done (H)

kind regards
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Postby wabhimself » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:47 pm

darksun_uk wrote:
wabhimself wrote: now l think l handled that pretty well not going after the guy despite him hitting the kid


i applaud your restraint and public spirted action, violence against the weaker members of our society should be challenge whenever it is reasonable to do so (and sometimes when its not due to an adrenaline rush or overpowering sense of righteous anger)

as discussed in the thread so far you took a relatively small risk on your part but gained a potentially huge reward in that the child in question was prevented from getting a serious injury or even ending up dead.

well done (H)

kind regards

thanks very much dude, l wish l had known who that dick was but, the kid didnt either or l woulda phoned the police about it

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Postby Moon » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:52 pm

Logan wrote:Its not stupid, in that respect.
This is not directed at anyone,I've only quoted Logan for the following reason.

RESPECT,that’s the only time that I’ve come across the word in this thread so far and even then it wasn’t used in the context that I had in mind.[no offence meant Logan]
I’m not talking about respect for your parents,grandparents or other elder members of your family,that,IMO goes without saying,provided you’ve had a normal decent up-bringing of course.It has been my experience that the vast majority of your everyday headbanger,druggy,or general bully-boy that you’re likely to be accosted by,in the Pub or Street,has had a poor up-bringing,for one reason or another and has no respect for his parents etc,his schoolteachers or anyone in authority,including the Law and as a result has no self respect.
That’s the difference between them and us,we have self respect,whether it is inherited genetically,instilled during childhood,learned through Military/MA training or other methods,it’s that “little voice” that says NO,I refuse to be intimidated by anyone who thinks he can get away with what the Hell he likes,just because he has no respect for others,be it a physical threat or just being insulted or talked down to.
On the other hand,self respect and self confidence go hand in glove,to a degree and can lead to arrogance and a Gung-Ho attitude which is about as much use as a limp to that person or anyone around them,they’re a danger to themselves and those in close proximity to them and best avoided.These people will certainly not be found in any of the Elite Forces,for obvious reasons.
Finally,I would just like to make it clear that when I said “The best form of defence is Attack”,this only applies when all other avenues have been exhausted and violence is inevitable,it doesn’t mean “Shoot first and ask questions later”,that’s the road to self destruction eventually.
I gotta go one better than BJ and say that's my Groats worth fwiw.
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Postby darksun_uk » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:58 pm

MoonShadow wrote:Finally,I would just like to make it clear that when I said “The best form of defence is Attack”,this only applies when all other avenues have been exhausted and violence is inevitable,it doesn’t mean “Shoot first and ask questions later”,that’s the road to self destruction eventually.
I gotta go one better than BJ and say that's my Groats worth fwiw.
[Four penn'orth] and No,I wasn't around when they were in circulation :D


i understood the use of the phrase and took the use of it by you to mean that you did indeed understand its negative implications with regards to its effect on ego and attitude in the context that you have now fully explained in the text i have quoted in this post my intent was to clarifiy it in the context of my point about situations where it does not apply etc in order to boost my point about the importance and tangible benifits of the art of stealth and cunning and the overiding importance of maintaining tatical awareness to a greater or lesser extent based on the risk versus reward principle.

the point about self respect etc is perfectly valid and interesting and as you say worthy of mentioning as it had not been raised before one thing i would say on the broad subject is that most people starting a confrontation in an obvious way (loud aggressive posturing and so forth) have already lost the battle when confronted with a person who knows how best to either run,diffuse or redirect the situation or indeed flatten the person with a few well placed blows or a correctly performed hold or throw as the assailent is either blinded by ego/aggression or relying on a "shock and awe" response to frighten the potential victim into submission neither of which are fully effective on someone prepared to act who has time to weigh the situation and act (whether thats a few seconds or much longer) i once sat though a brewing arguement in a pub once (over several hours)the person under verbal attack was not really aware that the situation was leading to a violent outcome and thus i made a coded but clear effort to diffuse the situation to a peacefull end and avoided spoiling the generally good atmosphere of the evening (the celebration of the birth of my mates daughter) the person directing the verbal provacation had all his provocative probes and verbal barbs either redirected in a harmless way or left to fall on deaf ears as i distracted the intended victim it was quite an effort to maintain this through the evening but it was well worth it and i was very confident that the tactical approach i adopted was the right one to enable a positive outcome.

back to the self respect point specifically some people act out of character under the influence of drink/drugs and at certain points in life for various reasons the victim seeking mentality is only really to be feared/respected when adopted by commited terrorists a certain section of the criminal community or psycopaths/delusional mentally ill people, great care should be taken when dealing with any of these small groups but there wilingness to use overwhelming force at a moments notice is sometimes simply impossible to avoid or indeed limit the harm done.

a terrorist will kill or attack you if you are taken as a threat or stand in there way.

certain criminals for example armed robbers or people commiting very serious crimes will respond with unflinching brutality in order to for example rob a bank or cover up a larger crime.

with regards to mentally ill people those suffering from severe delusions can act out there delusions in unprovoked outburts of violence or more specifically in the case of psycopaths/sociopaths there willingness to inflict seemingly over the top/unprovoked violence in an instant makes them very dangerous thankfully they are quite rare and they usually manifest there extreme capacity for violence only to protect themselves usually from only imagined or very slight perception of danger however if one of these types of people is making a living as a mugger then they can be a handfull (to say the least)





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Postby Moon » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:21 am

Finally,I would just like to make it clear that when I said “The best form of defence is Attack”,this only applies when all other avenues have been exhausted and violence is inevitable,it doesn’t mean “Shoot first and ask questions later”,that’s the road to self destruction eventually.
I gotta go one better than BJ and say that's my Groats worth fwiw.
[Four penn'orth] and No,I wasn't around when they were in circulation
DarkSun,this wasn't directed at you m8,it was just to clarify any misunderstanding that others,in general,may have had.
If,anyone else is reading this thread. :D
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Postby Sam » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:43 am

Logan wrote:I obviously don't get out much then! :S Though that's simply not true.

All this 'my mate gets picked on' - where on earth do people go to get picked on!? :|

I have sh*t loads of friends in Milton Keynes. I have relatives, cousins, brothers, aunts, uncles and so forth all over the country and I have NEVER heard from any of them saying things like 'I was walking down the street the other day and got jumped by some youths who attacked/picked on me'. It just doesn't happen, least not in the people I know.

When you say picked on though, is it things like verbal abuse? Because that sort of thing IS avoidable. You can choose to ignore the comments and not rise to it. Or you can do the opposite. No?

If were talking childhood scraps, then that's slightly different. As I said before, Gem's bro used to get in a few fights when he was younger but that was through voluntarily hanging with the wrong types of people.

Its true you can't avoid some fights, but the majority have other options for resolution.


Congratulations on your lovely home town then logan.
sounds like heaven.
i might move there and be happy and content for the rest of my days.
"Can't kill a man without knowin' for sure you ought too..."

Logan

Postby Logan » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:02 am

Sam wrote:Congratulations on your lovely home town then logan.
sounds like heaven.
i might move there and be happy and content for the rest of my days.


Like anywhere, there are 'undesirable' areas here too, I'm just not stupid enough to go anywhere near them without good reason.

No need to be sarcastic either Sam. I'm not only talking about where I currently live, I'm also talking about areas my family have come from. As I stated before, I've never had any of them or 'heard through the grape vine' any of these stories people are coming out with in this thread.


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