A short Kendo vs Rapier vid

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Fri May 26, 2006 5:49 pm

The armour would be no problem if the samurai had CS katanas. :roll:

Jaques

Post by Jaques » Fri May 26, 2006 9:45 pm

Are..... are you serious?

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Fri May 26, 2006 10:15 pm

8)

Jaques

Post by Jaques » Fri May 26, 2006 10:49 pm

Eeerrm...... Seriously?

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Banzai Joe
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Post by Banzai Joe » Fri May 26, 2006 11:27 pm

Jaques wrote:Eeerrm...... Seriously?
Dude, the word 'serious' and any derivitives of, do not belong in this thread ! 8)

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Moon
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Post by Moon » Fri May 26, 2006 11:40 pm

Hang about guys.....IIRC chain mail and rapiers are of vastly different periods.....I mean,when did you ever read of Medieaval British Knights going into battle armed with rapiers ??? :|

The abbreviation,CS has 2 different interpretations on the forums ,ie "Cold Steel" as in the Company of the same name and 'carbon steel' which the Japanese have had for at least 1200 years or more.

Just a thought,before wires get crossed.

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darkhobo
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Post by darkhobo » Sat May 27, 2006 7:36 am

Jaques wrote: A katana would be sh*t against knightly armour, but they're have the advantage of speed to seek out weak points.... But the british longbow would rinse Samurai armour....
Couple of misconceptions (sp?) about samurai armor. with the katana being sh*tty against knightly armor, a stab would go straight through it. Samurai armor and knight armor did not have that big of a difference in movement restriction. A well trained knight who is used to his armor can move suprisingly fast. They only have about a 10 lbs difference if i remember correctly (on average), which when distributed over the body, is nothing. And I'm not sure on the power difference of longbows and samurai bows, but I have read about stories of samurai coming off the field of battle with multiple arrows stuck in their armor, without piercing to the body.

Jaques

Post by Jaques » Sat May 27, 2006 9:41 pm

darkhobo wrote:
Jaques wrote: A katana would be sh*t against knightly armour, but they're have the advantage of speed to seek out weak points.... But the british longbow would rinse Samurai armour....
Couple of misconceptions (sp?) about samurai armor. with the katana being sh*tty against knightly armor, a stab would go straight through it. Samurai armor and knight armor did not have that big of a difference in movement restriction. A well trained knight who is used to his armor can move suprisingly fast. They only have about a 10 lbs difference if i remember correctly (on average), which when distributed over the body, is nothing. And I'm not sure on the power difference of longbows and samurai bows, but I have read about stories of samurai coming off the field of battle with multiple arrows stuck in their armor, without piercing to the body.
I been all round told! But because I'm a stubborn sort of a chap I'll stick with my previous verdict: no f'in idea who'd win.

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Post by darksun_uk » Sat May 27, 2006 9:51 pm

darkhobo wrote:
Jaques wrote: A katana would be sh*t against knightly armour, but they're have the advantage of speed to seek out weak points.... But the british longbow would rinse Samurai armour....
Couple of misconceptions (sp?) about samurai armor. with the katana being sh*tty against knightly armor, a stab would go straight through it.
dude, i have seen videos of the only battlefield weapon made to penatrate plate armour and it was not a sword, a katana is a cutting weapon which will simply not cut through hardened steel it is impossible so the idea of a samurai cutting or thrusting his way through high gothic period plate armour is utterly ridiculous, how much protection samurai armour of the same period offerred i am not really sure the same level is not possibe however as it is not made of hardened steel.

darkhobo wrote: is nothing. And I'm not sure on the power difference of longbows and samurai bows, but I have read about stories of samurai coming off the field of battle with multiple arrows stuck in their armor, without piercing to the body.
an english (or welsh) longbow is the most powerfull bow used in pre-firearm warfare as far as i know, its power far exceeds any shortbow and it would have no trouble downing a samurai on a horse just as it had no trouble downing countless knights on horses (with full plate barding on the horse) in any number of battles including agincourt probably its most infamous use where it was responsible for killing virtually an entire generation of the nobles of france in a matter of hours.....

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K@L@SH
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Post by K@L@SH » Sat May 27, 2006 10:34 pm

hmmm, not going to mention deleted posts...<----damn

but that is part i was thinking out,

fudal Japan VS medieval england..hmm

not huge on samuria tactics though, dont know how they would have faught on the battle feild.

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darkhobo
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Post by darkhobo » Sun May 28, 2006 6:25 am

darksun_uk wrote:
darkhobo wrote:
Jaques wrote: A katana would be sh*t against knightly armour, but they're have the advantage of speed to seek out weak points.... But the british longbow would rinse Samurai armour....
Couple of misconceptions (sp?) about samurai armor. with the katana being sh*tty against knightly armor, a stab would go straight through it.
dude, i have seen videos of the only battlefield weapon made to penatrate plate armour and it was not a sword, a katana is a cutting weapon which will simply not cut through hardened steel it is impossible so the idea of a samurai cutting or thrusting his way through high gothic period plate armour is utterly ridiculous, how much protection samurai armour of the same period offerred i am not really sure the same level is not possibe however as it is not made of hardened steel.
Its still a pointed piece of hardened steel against a flat piece of hardened steel. It should be able to penetrate, just as diamond can cut diamond, steel can cut steel (proven in my machine shop class). I good stab with the person's weight behind the sword should be able to go through. I know I would not feel at all safe allowing someone to thrust at me with a katana, even with the strongest armor in the world.

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Post by Gorilla Warfairy » Sun May 28, 2006 11:09 am

No, it wouldn't - plate armour has curved leading edges designed to deflect thrust attacks. Add to that the fact that any well trained person, hence any medieval knight, would be moving in such a manner as to avoid the attack and the blade simply bounces off every time.

Armour, weapons, tactics and anything else to do with warfare evolve as a concequence of the enemy being faced, the terrain being fought over and the recources/technology available to to the cultures involved.

The Samurai never fought English knights, or those from any European country and never had to deal with opponents in plate armour. Hence katana are not designed with this in mind and I find it very hard to believe that a sword from a culture completely alien to plate armour would be effective against it when swords developed specifcally to fight those wearing such armour were not. (In the manner that you suggest katana would be).

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Tempest UK
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Post by Tempest UK » Sun May 28, 2006 11:11 am

Darkhobo, the "diamond being able to cut diamond" thinking cannot be applied to a katana cutting metal armour like that. Whilst it is technically possible for a katana to cut some metals, it requires perfect conditions and extreme levels of training - in other words, it will not be achieved in a battlefield situation where you're fighitng for your life and don't exactly have time to line up the perfect cut . It. Just. Won't. Happen. The katana is a weapon designed to slash/cut/slice etc etc. So if you then try and use it for something which it was not intended for, against an enemy it was not intended to be used against...well...it won't end well.

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wtf?
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Post by wtf? » Sun May 28, 2006 12:00 pm

everyone has said this all before... but to boil it down "theres no way we could EVER know"

end of disscussion really. im pretty sure that those with enough information to contribute, couldnt really be bothered to go through a thousand words to formulate a bad speculation. and thats what it would be.

and as many other people have mentioned... neither of the 'sides' in question ever faced anyone remotely similar to their supposed enemy.

im surprised that i havent heard "japanese would win because they have ninja, and their super cool, and can flip out and kill everyone... for like... no reason. and i know, because i saw it on "Highlander 9".... He's Back, and This Time.... Its Medievil Europe, and Flippy Out Ninja Assassins.

rant over. 8)

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Sun May 28, 2006 12:40 pm

wtf? wrote: im surprised that i havent heard "japanese would win because they have ninja, and their super cool, and can flip out and kill everyone... for like... no reason. and i know, because i saw it on "Highlander 9".... He's Back, and This Time.... Its Medievil Europe, and Flippy Out Ninja Assassins.

rant over. 8)
Damn, there goes my next post. :D

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