A short Kendo vs Rapier vid

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Banzai Joe
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Post by Banzai Joe » Sun May 28, 2006 4:11 pm

Lol @ wtf.......sweet!

Ok, my bit. It is certainly possible for a katana to stab through plate armour, its just not very likely. You don't have to be perfectly trained to do this, just stab out and hope for the best, it won't always fail.
Yes japanese swords were developed with curves for a purpose, to fight off the mongols cos they got their asses kicked the first time as they were using traditional chinese styled straight swords which did little against the mongolian armour. So the curve help to cut and slash. It could still stab though.
Samurai used plate armour also, it just wasn't usually metal, it was hide over bambo and other wood, But plate metal was used in the evolution of the armour.
The japanese also used a similar style short hunting bow to the mongolians which was fooking hellish powerful, accurate and deadly. But again they often used a 7ft yumi which was possibly not as good (not sure about that).

GW.....medieval european knights might be used to heavy armour but they'd need to be fkin supermen to move fast in them for battle durations.
My brother wears this stuff every week as he is part of some kind of freaky medieval society and he's a weapons instructor. So he's well used to it and i've seen the state of him when he's been in armour for a short while. He's completely b0ll0xed. His chainmail weighs 30lb alone, never mind the rest of his armour.

It is swings and roundabouts fellas, but some folk are giving out 'definitives' which none of us can 'really' prove.

Fun though..while it lasts :D

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Sun May 28, 2006 4:45 pm

A quick qustion about the curve of the katana. Is it true it begins as a straight length of steel, and curves naturally when quenched?

Hatamoto
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Post by Hatamoto » Sun May 28, 2006 6:09 pm

That's what I heard.

As far as sai go, just to add one more male to the list - the annoying kid from 3 Ninjas :D Though he doesn't count, you'd only have to point behind him and go "LOOK, FREE FOOD!" then kick him in the ass :p


Quite surprised this thread has gone on for so long :)

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Gorilla Warfairy
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Post by Gorilla Warfairy » Sun May 28, 2006 7:08 pm

Banzai Joe wrote:GW.....medieval european knights might be used to heavy armour but they'd need to be fkin supermen to move fast in them for battle durations.
They don't have to be moving fast, just moving at all is enough. I've seen different sword types, including a katana, tested against steel plate armour for both piercing and slashing and not one of the swords did any more than to make a dent.

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Moon
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Post by Moon » Sun May 28, 2006 9:37 pm

Lexxorcist wrote:A quick qustion about the curve of the katana. Is it true it begins as a straight length of steel, and curves naturally when quenched?
Not strictly true,the 'smith' makes the blade with a curve (Sori) but it's not very pronounced,the quenching process does however give the blade more Sori.
If you've got 'Sky' TV keep an eye out for a prog' on the History channel called 'The Master',one of them is all about Masamune and gives an insight into the making of a blade at a real Japanese forge from start to finish.

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Caladras
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Post by Caladras » Sun May 28, 2006 10:16 pm

I have seen that prog and it is pretty good, very interesting. I have to agree with wtf? who the heck can know what would win in all honesty. It is an interesting debate ignoring that fact though. Personally i'm not sure, plate mail was designed to be extremely good at stopping all types of swords and even axes (which arguably can cut as well as any katana). I'm almost certain that the knight would also have a shield which could really screw up someone wielding a katana in a double handed grip.

Really you have to pick a specific time period, but overall I think the knight would probably get it, the plate armour made them like a tank on the battlefield. Against a typical medieval fencer? Hmm i'm not so sure, I reckon it would be the katana

Personally I think the longbow would beat the Yumi and the hunting bow, trouble is the hunting bow can be (and was) used on horseback, this is a huge advantage over the longbow. However it is still an incredibly powerful weapon, and there are documents detailing a single arrow going through a knight in full plate and into the horse beneath him. If you ever get a chance to see the Archery demonstration at Warwick castle it is really worth it, very scary to know how the english archers shot at Agincourt.

Cal

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Sun May 28, 2006 10:30 pm

I don't have sky, which is a shame because that sounds interesting.

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Post by Hatamoto » Sun May 28, 2006 10:51 pm

Handy to have certain programs on your computer so you can download such programmes. I also don't have sky, but if you search for katana or similar (as I have done in the past) you can get hold of some programmes on weapons, and so on. Got one called Decisive Weapons that goes through some Japanese weaponry, and the forging process, etc.

I dunno if it would be illegal to discuss that sicne it's programmes on TV and is accessible to anyone anyway, but feel free to delete this post if you wanna be safe :$

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Sun May 28, 2006 11:08 pm

I have legal software that may in theory be capable of doing such things. I found some very interesting Iaido and Kendo demonstrations. They were each just a couple of minutes long and appeared to be filmed on old b/w super8 with no sound. It's amazing what you can find out there. I also found an old laser-disk rip of shaolins training at the monastry. I know they go round doing displays now, and the stuff they do 'at home' is similar, but looks much tougher. I think these ones are probably out of copyright too (can't think why else it'd be ripped off a laser disk and some look like very old home movies).

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Moon
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Post by Moon » Sun May 28, 2006 11:21 pm

Well...I'm gonna 'put the cat amongst the pigeons' and disagree with the Longbow beats Armour Plate brigade.
From what I recall of my History lessons during my school days,the Longbow brought down far more horses than it did Knights and the Armour worn by said Knights was so heavy that many had to be literally hoisted into the saddle with a rope and pulley.When their horse was taken out from under them they were at the mercy of opposing Knights and Pikemen,they couldn't advance with any momentum nor retreat at speed.
I've watched a demo' on TV where an Armourer made a traditional helmet and this was shot at with bodkin tipped arrows at very short range,one did penetrate the helmet but only just and had it been another part of the Armour,would imo caused a relatively minor wound only.
This does not apply to chain mail of course,as the bodkin tip penetrated this easily.

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Gorilla Warfairy
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Post by Gorilla Warfairy » Mon May 29, 2006 10:23 am

You have to remember though that medieval longbows were more powerful than those that are made today and many longbowmen skeletons are deformed as a result of the extra strain being placed upon their arms. We don't really know how powerful they were as only a few degraded examples have survived, I would point you to this article if you really want to know more.

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Moon
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Post by Moon » Mon May 29, 2006 10:35 am

What article? :D

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Mon May 29, 2006 1:47 pm

When I used to go to the shooting club they had longbows in after us. Modern longbows are extremely powerful. They have gears and pullies all over them, very hi-tec.

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Moon
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Post by Moon » Mon May 29, 2006 2:09 pm

Lexxorcist wrote:When I used to go to the shooting club they had longbows in after us. Modern longbows are extremely powerful. They have gears and pullies all over them, very hi-tec.
The bow used in the demo' I saw wasn't a 'compound',it was modern made but built to be historically correct,whether it was or not,I couldn't say.

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Mon May 29, 2006 2:22 pm

They're amazing weapons anyway. I can see how people ended up with deformed arms after using the old ones. Even the compound ones aren't that easy.

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