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A forum for discussion on all things related to the martial-arts and oriental sword-arts

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darkhobo
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Postby darkhobo » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:45 am

Lexxorcist wrote:but western boxing is a martial art

I dont consider wrestiling an art, just a sport, and western boxing in my opinion is not a martial art. Although I would sh*t myself if I ever had to fight one of them, it seems to me more of a contest to see who can take the most punches to the face before falling down.
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Lexxorcist
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Postby Lexxorcist » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:59 am

But it is a martial art. It's a formal fighting system. Karate, Judo, Jiu jitsu, TKD etc are all used for sport, but it doesn't mean they're any less matial arts. Whatever purpose they're used for, they still fit the definition.
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wtf?
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Postby wtf? » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:31 pm

actually... martial art pertains to a millitary art, or tightly regimented skill.

so technically speaking, only a few arts that have been used as part of millitary training can be called a true martial art.

then theres the difference between a combat art, thats easily defined as a millitary art... and a sport.

kenjutsu ----> kendo
Ju-Jutsu ----> judo
etc.

then theres the fact that most people consider anything based in fighting as a martial art, as long as its oriental.

as far as im concerned... most things fall into one of a few catogorys.

combat art. (ju-jutsu, etc)
sport art (TQD, judo, etc)
art, art. (tai chi, wushu, etc)
weapon art. (kenjutsu, sojutsu, etc)

the rest is just details, and semantics.
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Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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Lexxorcist
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Postby Lexxorcist » Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:05 pm

wtf? wrote:
as far as im concerned... most things fall into one of a few catogorys.

combat art. (ju-jutsu, etc)
sport art (TQD, judo, etc)
art, art. (tai chi, wushu, etc)
weapon art. (kenjutsu, sojutsu, etc)

the rest is just details, and semantics.


But you do get jiu jitsu as a sport, judo and TKD as self-defence, tai chi is a very powerful fighting art ('cos chris crudelli ses so lol), though wushu is just an art art really i guess. Didn't it originate as kind of entertainment art though, so people could fight and look cool for an audience without killing each other? I'm not convinced TKD and judo origionated as sports. I've always assumed they were fighting arts that branched out into sport.
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wtf?
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Postby wtf? » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:25 pm

ju-jutsu in essence is a combat art. but it is watered down to acomodate sports type training, and application. same with TQD being upgraded from sport to defensive... but those examples are generally minor.

on the whole, ju-jutsu will be a combat art, and TQD will be a sport (even if they say its a combat art) but theres obviously going to be exceptions to the rule.

while tai chi IS a fighting art... its application as such is rare... so i class it as an art, art.... and judo originated from ju-jutsu as an art to be not as serious and brutal. it was dumbed down to make it less combat effective, and is now mainly a sport... so asise from rare exceptions, i still class it as a sport.

wushu is chinese... so i dont know anything about it.

everything started as a real art... or something MEANT to be a combat art. but as you said... watered down into something else. the above is a generalisation, and there will be exceptions.
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Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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Postby ashley » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:31 pm

Lexxorcist wrote:
stYx wrote:Whilst i do believe that the WWF style wrestlers are indeed Athletes, their stuff and this is purely my own opinion is just a collection of stunts, and shouldnt be confused with 'real' wrestling.


I agree. Dan Servern isn't (as far as I'm aware) a WWF wrestler. I've only seen him fight in the UFC MMA competitions, and he did well against a variety of martial artists.

he was a wwf/wwe wrestler some time ago along with Ken Shamrock
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Lexxorcist
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Postby Lexxorcist » Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:24 pm

I didn't know Shamrock and Severn were in WWF, but then I don't watch it. They are pretty awesome in no-holds-barred fights (or at least were in their time).

I go to karate neither purely for the combat or the sporting side of it. A lot more people seem interested in it as a sport these days but my reasons for doing it (other than improving my karate skills) are perfecting my character, helping find balance an inner peace, just generally improving myself physically and mentally. I try to apply karate to everything and everything to karate. That's another option on top of pure combat and sport. There's still quite a large remnant of the 'essence of karate' in our dojo which is why I like it so much. My first ever grading was under the late master Suzuki. He was a great inspiration to me. Basically I suppose martial arts are whatever you want to make of them. I'm just not interested in competing with anyone other than myself. The closest I've been to competing was running round Crystal Palace with score sheets in the national championships. :D
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darkphoton1
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Postby darkphoton1 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:12 pm

if we were to get technical



martial art


martial : military related


olympic wrestling military related?

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Postby stYx » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:29 pm

darkphoton1 wrote:if we were to get technical



martial art


martial : military related


olympic wrestling military related?


olympic anything military related? :S

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling

Interesting section on Military Wrestling.
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darkphoton1
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Postby darkphoton1 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:34 pm

then i guess it is a martial art.

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Lexxorcist
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Postby Lexxorcist » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:36 pm

darkphoton1 wrote:if we were to get technical



martial art


martial : military related


olympic wrestling military related?


So karate was developed by the military? And kung fu? Didn't that spring from a bunch of monks? or are they not martial arts? Olympic wrestling is a sport, but so can any martial art be. I believe the form of wrestling you see in the olympics has roots in an effective combat art, but am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. I may have been corrected already, but I can't be bothered reading back through this thread which I thought had fizzled out.
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