Oni no Tengu wrote:God! this is getting boring now!.
you can thank me later.
Oni no Tengu wrote:Anyway.. "designed" for bone crushing blows, Was perhaps the wrong word.
But take for example the heavy knights armour, platemail or chainmail.
If a sword designed primarely for cutting could not penetrate that armour, then why would a thin, light sharpened sword be used at all, if the armour was impervious to any strikes, and only stabbing strikes directed at joins might be successful.
put simply the sword (any sword) is very good at hacking up poorly armoured peasents which make up the vast bulk of any army (plus swords are usefull and effective weapons for personal defense) knights would use other weapons to attack an armoured foe only falling back on the sword if they were unhorsed or had no other choice....
Oni no Tengu wrote:It only makes sense that to try to defeat someone wearing heavy platemail or armour , that you use a huge sword, upwards of 10lb's in weight,
no, it makes sense to use a tool designed for the job i.e. massed archers,a spear or polearm, a battle axe/pick a mace etc or if your a mounted knight a lance...
Oni no Tengu wrote:Again....Plate mail would have been useless in Japan, because it would not have fitted in with the rest of the Samurai's combat art and his other weapons.
Whens the last time you saw someone successfully firing an arrow from a bow accurately whilst wearing plate mail with a helm.
Or performing side kicks or other martial arts moves, or how about a forward or backward roll to escape the blow of a sword...er! never! I think.
Plate mail while a superior armour in terms of strength was simply not flexible enough for the needs of the samurai and his combat arts.
see wtf's post above for some of the cutural reasons why not and also it would have been to expensive as good quality carbon steel from the tartara process was used for weapons.
Oni no Tengu wrote:Onto the chances of a katana getting stuck in a suit of platemail.
I'd say the chances would be very high,
stuck in what and how ? explain please, carbon steel hardend to the same degree wont cut into itself thats basic metalurgy.
Oni no Tengu wrote: unless it was deflected or not a very powerful slicing strike.
no, it simply wont happen even more unlikely under battlefield conditions.
Oni no Tengu wrote:And were not just talking about hardened steel against hardened steel.
We are talking about a katana that may have been folded 1000's of times and have millions of layers, it is NOT even in the same class as the metal used in platemail or in a Knights sword.
im sorry mate but thats displays pure ignorance of the facts, carbon steel is carbon steel all folding did/does was remove the impurites from the roughly smelted steel the japanese smiths had to work with the nice hamon and hada are a pleasent by product. history and tradition contiune because of cultural reasons and the swords are lovely and have wonderfull history etc but they are just steel after all, after the mid 9th century the art of pattern welding died out in europe as large amounts of good steel started to be mass produced (certainly when compared to the amounts available to japanese smiths) thus making plate and good quality through tempered swords much more common (though plate was still very expensive)
carbon steel heat treated to the same level is carbon steel folding has nothing to do with the performance on a purely metalurgical level that is fact.
Oni no Tengu wrote:I'm not saying that even the best katana in history was Indestructable, or that its edge was so keen it could slice through metal like a hot knife through butter,
thats good because it makes the journey to reality much shorter.
Oni no Tengu wrote: But these swords were the epitomy of the swordsmiths art,
Some of them took months to make, they were tried and tested on the battlefield for hundreds of years,
like the pattern welded blades in 4th-8th century europe they are mentioned in sagas and many were passed down for generations pattern welded swords are much less likely to "take a set" than an iron sword and as they were made with great care (because the carbon steel on the edge was so expensive) they seemed to last a long time and were looked after and looked upon with awe in there time, many were ultimatley buried with kings.
Oni no Tengu wrote: And they could slice into metal armour, Maybe not through, But certainly into.,
iron yes copper yes but plate armour no, as i said any sword can do those things as the materiel is softer than the swords blade.
in order to prove me wrong you will have to cite a peer reviewed academic study into the relative strengh of two samples of metal one folded one not but both carbon steel with the same level of heat treatment (rockwell hardness etc) no such study exsists as any metalugist will tell you in 2 seconds flat "there is no diffference".
Oni no Tengu wrote:I'm not just pulling stuff outta the air, or talking outta my ass, This is factual info that I have read from books created by Japanese historians.
your posting opinion as fact and not backing it up mate actually reading a bit more about the subject you profess so much expertise on may prove usefull.
Oni no Tengu wrote:I know very little about english weaponary and armour
yeah we can agree on that much at least.
Oni no Tengu wrote:, You do seem to know more, so I'll leave it at that.
yes and i tire of the endless corrections, lol.
Oni no Tengu wrote:But I do know a hell of a lot more about Japanese weapons and the Samurai, And obviously more than you,.
no really you obvioulsy dont or you would not have posted the stuff you have done.
Oni no Tengu wrote: since you asked why the Japanese did'nt use platemail, when if you knew anything about the samurai and their combat art, then you'd know why they did'nt use it.
As I've mentioned above.
you obviously dont know what a rhetorical question is then,