couple'a Q's

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Shannara
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couple'a Q's

Post by Shannara » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:23 pm

two questions
at what stage generally in Akido do you do bokken work?
also
why are the swords used by the ninja straight bladed rather than curved like katana's?
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Skeet
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Post by Skeet » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:28 pm

First question...dunno..."when you are ready, grasshopper" I guess!

Secondly..I may be wrong..but, AFAIK...Ninja (considered the scum of the earth) used, poor quality Katana type swords...not straight ones...the straight sword, is a fallacy, by all accounts.
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Jubei
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Post by Jubei » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:53 pm

the straight bladed "ninja sword" is a complete lie. historicly, it was a long wakazashi or short katana. and thats only IF your looking at that particular lengh. any and all blades were used, there was no prescribed lengh as ninja didnt use any swords of their own (not of their own design anyway) it was much cheeper to just steal swords, and they would steal whatever they could, regardless of lengh or curvature. the onlty reason people think they use the shorter "ninja" swords is because thats whats on T.V.

as for straight....

different designs mean different gradients of bend, this is true of all swords. so it wasnt that straight blades were made specificly, it was that straight blades (or blades with little curve) were used by choise. (the reason..... lack of sword skill on behalf of the nin-jutsu practitioner, a straight sword stabs better, stabbing kills are easier to inflict than slashing ones.)

and aikido. bokken, and jo work will usually start at 1st kyu, or 1st dan level. they will be used before that to demonstrate certain technique, but this will be a demo, not hands-on training. (of course it all depends on the sensei, and the student)
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Post by darksun_uk » Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:00 pm

it was much simpler to remount a traditional wakizashi blade that had very little sori (curve) with a katana length tsuka (to give a draw speed advantage) than to make a weapon specifically.....

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Post by Xen » Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:40 am

Jubei wrote:and aikido. bokken, and jo work will usually start at 1st kyu, or 1st dan level. they will be used before that to demonstrate certain technique, but this will be a demo, not hands-on training. (of course it all depends on the sensei, and the student)


In our organisation, we are encouraged to use weapons (especially the bokken) for developing center.

Your center is where your ki comes from - bascially all your power. By practicing 'number 1 bokken suburi', you develop your center in time.

And so many techniques rely on center...it becomes apparent very quickly that the martial art, Aikido, derives from the samurai. Should a samurai warrior be disarmed, he may use techniques similar to that in Aikido to disarm/kill his opponent. He may also use some techniques taught -at least in my style (very traditional) - in Aikido, to enable him to draw his sword and slay his opponent (who is gripping his wrists to stop him reaching his sword - wrist grabbing is very common in Aikido.) This is practiced sometimes in the dojo with bokken.

Getting to the point, I used a bokken in my second lesson. We went through some 'bokken suburi', which are some basic cuts (the only ones we learn in our organisation - 7 bokken suburi and the '8-directional-sword-cut').

Hope this helps, even though i've ranted for ages...
Bare in mind i'm a novice and am open to criticism and interpretation :-D

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Post by Jubei » Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:05 pm

you should do a lot more than that, the art of aikido is widely based on the foot movements of Ken-jutsu. most schools teach basic level sword, and jo movement so that the pupil can undersand the aikido movements in further detail.
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Post by Xen » Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:44 pm

Jubei wrote:you should do a lot more than that, the art of aikido is widely based on the foot movements of Ken-jutsu. most schools teach basic level sword, and jo movement so that the pupil can undersand the aikido movements in further detail.

Are you talking to me here? I'm not sure...

If you are, obviously we are taught a lot more than what I just wrote; but since no-one asked for an essay, I didn't write one.

If you're not talking to me, apologies :-P
Bare in mind i'm a novice and am open to criticism and interpretation :-D

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Shannara
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Post by Shannara » Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:55 pm

cheers for all the advice
also (darksun probs help out here)
how where katana's of ancient japan made differently to the CS bades we can buy? why cant they be used in blade to blade combat
not intending to try it just curious
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Post by darksun_uk » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:15 pm

Shannara wrote:how where katana's of ancient japan made differently to the CS bades we can buy?


the construction of the older swords evolved into what it is now through a long process, the basic idea of folding the steel was done originally to even out the carbon content of the billet of steel that was made up from smaller bits of steel that had uneven carbon content(due to the poor quality iron ore deposits on the home islands and to an extent quality control issues during smelting etc) this led to the folding patterns being revealed during the polishing/sharpening process as well as the harder edge of the hamon being revealed also,

modern steel has an even carbon content so folding is not really required the folded steel swords made today outside japan are made to replicate the traditional patterns etc found in original japanese blades, and the monosteel swords that are availible today are simply a cheaper way of making functional martial arts grade weapons etc

Shannara wrote:why cant they be used in blade to blade combat
not intending to try it just curious


well its not a good idea to go edge to edge with any sword as its a risk to both weapons as the edges will chip and the blade could fail (more of a risk with differentially tempered blades), bokken/waster practice is a much better way to learn about the practicalitys of sword combat etc

hope this post helps

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Shannara
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Post by Shannara » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:34 pm

darksun_uk wrote:
Shannara wrote:how where katana's of ancient japan made differently to the CS bades we can buy?


the construction of the older swords evolved into what it is now through a long process, the basic idea of folding the steel was done originally to even out the carbon content of the billet of steel that was made up from smaller bits of steel that had uneven carbon content(due to the poor quality iron ore deposits on the home islands and to an extent quality control issues during smelting etc) this led to the folding patterns being revealed during the polishing/sharpening process as well as the harder edge of the hamon being revealed also,

modern steel has an even carbon content so folding is not really required the folded steel swords made today outside japan are made to replicate the traditional patterns etc found in original japanese blades, and the monosteel swords that are availible today are simply a cheaper way of making functional martial arts grade weapons etc

Shannara wrote:why cant they be used in blade to blade combat
not intending to try it just curious


well its not a good idea to go edge to edge with any sword as its a risk to both weapons as the edges will chip and the blade could fail (more of a risk with differentially tempered blades), bokken/waster practice is a much better way to learn about the practicalitys of sword combat etc

hope this post helps

kind regards

yeah thanks for filling me in on that just always been a bit curious
and obviously bokken would be the way to go with learning just interested to know why CS was unsuitable and now i know
thanks so much for your answers!
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Post by darksun_uk » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:23 pm

Shannara wrote:thanks so much for your answers!


your more than wellcome, 8) 8)

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Post by Banzai Joe » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:26 pm

How the hell darksun has not been promoted to demi-god yet is anyone's guess...... BAH! :x politics politics politics.

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eep....prozac kicking in....or out.....or in!!! :shock:
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