Mixing your arts.....complements or contradicts?!

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darkhobo
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Post by darkhobo » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:55 pm

*sigh* another huge damn post by steve.... :?

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Steve Ishikawa
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Post by Steve Ishikawa » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:58 pm

and i know you love me for it :-D

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darkhobo
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Post by darkhobo » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:09 pm

you know, with all your posts, i find myself strangly aroused and attracted to you :oops:
Last edited by darkhobo on Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gorilla Warfairy
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Post by Gorilla Warfairy » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:15 pm

I have to admit, i read all steve's posts several times, they're too good to just read once :roll:

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Satori
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Post by Satori » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:30 pm

Thanks man

Just one other thing
kung fu schools over there, as they have karate, jujitsu, tamishigiri, boxing, kick boxing, drunken boxing, tai chi, jeet kune do, gung fu -
Gung Fu and Kung Fu are the same thing. Gung Fu is the correct pronounciation (sp.) Kung Fu is just the way westerners say it.

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Steve Ishikawa
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Post by Steve Ishikawa » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:00 am

Satori wrote:Thanks man

Just one other thing
kung fu schools over there, as they have karate, jujitsu, tamishigiri, boxing, kick boxing, drunken boxing, tai chi, jeet kune do, gung fu -
Gung Fu and Kung Fu are the same thing. Gung Fu is the correct pronounciation (sp.) Kung Fu is just the way westerners say it.
Ahhhh - i did not know that. I thought gung fu was an older complex version of kung fu - thanks for the info

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darkhobo
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Post by darkhobo » Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:06 pm

iv never heared it sayed gung fu...always just kung fu

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kiri
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Post by kiri » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:51 pm

An Interesting topic, combining martial arts.

I think you have to ask what you want from your art. Do you want to strike, grapple, kick, use weapons, fight one opponent, fight multiple opponents etc.... Do you want it for self defense, unarmed combat, health , competition, pretty forms or spiritual growth?

If you combine arts that have diferent approaches and goals then you may well find a conflict and this might confuse your response if you are going to use the art in "the street"

There seem to be two major aproaches to martial arts. Most external styles use whats known as adrenal response conditioning. You train under realistic conditions so that the fight or flight response becomes linked to certain actions, your defense becomes instinctive and reflexive. This is the simplist way to train. A response is dependent upon your strength, speed, flexibility, stamina and of course tactics and experience.

In the internal arts you train to enter a meditative state while you fight and so the fight or flight response does not happen. This is Bitchin difficult particularly in a combat situation but when you master it it allows you to use internal energy to power your moves. The internal arts of course rely on your ability to store, release and project energy (Chi, Ki, Prana etc...)

In my experience it is sometimes quite difficult to combine effectively training in internal and external systems at the same time.

I have trained in Ninjutsu for many years and you get that certain budo very Japanese warrior mind set. You train for strength, stamina, flexibility etc. I then started training in the Taoist arts Tai Chi, Ba-Gua and a bit of Hsing-I.

The problem for me came when having done standing dissolving, various Chi Kung and Nei Kung practices to release and relax my body to allow me to develop "Fajin" for the Taoist arts. Then I would go back to Ninjutsu do 100 pressups, develop the warrior mindset again and effectively reverse all the good I had done through my internal stuff! There was also the time when doing relaxed push hands in Tai Chi when someone pushed their hand towards me the Ninjutsu reflex took over and I nearly decked them.

I then added Systema to the cooking pot. this is quite a good medium between internal and external as it uses isometric exercises and what is effectively "hard" Chi Kung.

Slowly slowly I am now making my Ninjutsu more internal and adding Nei Kung principles to my Taijutsu. Not a fast process however.

I think you have a choice. You can make any internal art external (like most teachers in the UK who claim to teach Tai Chi for combat but purely rely on body dynamics and strength instead of Chi development) and thus ruin it. But the greatest practitioners of the external arts have through one way or another made them internal.

I think Jeet Kune Do is probably one of the best combination arts that is commonly available. It has taken the stuff that works and thrown out the rest, It is purely external however.

I can see that if you did a kicking art like Karate, then training in Tai kwon do and Mui Thai would be a great help because their goals and focus are the same.

Tai Chi, Ba Gua and Hsing I all complement each other as they all rely on the same Nei kung principles. In fact it was common for masters to teach more thanone of these.

To be honest most of the other so called Hybrid arts I have seen are appalling! Often invented by some idiot wanting to make money or stroking their own egos by claiming to be a master. In fact you often get guys who can't master any single system and do a bit of this and a bit of that who then put it all together to make "wankdojutsu" or somsuch nonsense! The new system has no history no testing under real conditions etc.....

Such is life

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darkhobo
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Post by darkhobo » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:02 am

wow, long post again, and neither steve nor darksun wrote it!!!
my world is caving in...this is so different :?
not to say that your big long huge ass posts arnt informative...they are just big long huge ass posts...ehhhhhhhhhhhhh :?
ya, im done
night all...errrrrr...morning all...

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Banzai Joe
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Post by Banzai Joe » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:18 am

Steve Ishikawa wrote:4) Any film that is martial arts based i would normally class as a kung fu film: - many have said to me "the Matrix is a cool film, i like the kung fu in it..." when it is mainly Jujitsu. In that respect i may be wrong, Kill Bill is more of a Samurai Film - but they are taught Kung Fu stances so they can find the Samurai stances easier to overwhelm.
err......matrix, mainly jujitsu? where? You wanna rethink that?
Kill Bill - samurai film? really? Steve, lol, choose a planet dude.

Kiri:
nice post m8, nice to see a martial artist with a good understanding of the science behind it. I also admire your choice of arts. I studied ninjitsu intensely for one year, to prepare me for the armed forces, and loved it. I was a lot younger then, and to be honest, because i follow a different martial path now, i'm not sure i could/would revisit ninjutsu, but its great that you've persevered in finding balance in your arts. I have a friend, who is remarkably talented, who has a similar path to your own. He holds shodan in aikido, shaolin kungfu, is a sempai in tai chi, and studies pa gua, chi gung and hsing i.
If he had the time he would study iaido and kendo with me, but there aint a 9 day week is there? :-x

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Steve Ishikawa
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Post by Steve Ishikawa » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:46 pm

Kiri.

Great post mate. But i don't agree with new martial arts having no history and being sh*t. Lets face it, every single martial arts started somewhere. Some within the last 50 years and are well known today. iof someone starts his own martial arts a thousand years from now would it not seem a great and practitioned art? Maybe when karate was formed - maybe the Shaolins saw it as a weak and stupid attempt to follow up kung fu. They're completly different but are widly loved to this day.

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darkhobo
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Post by darkhobo » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:42 pm

exellant point steve, and made in a sizable, yet easy to read paragrpah, well done 8) :???:

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Steve Ishikawa
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Post by Steve Ishikawa » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:46 pm

i did it for you mate :kiss1:

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darkhobo
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Post by darkhobo » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:23 am

:oops: :oops:
thanks
:kiss1:

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Banzai Joe
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Post by Banzai Joe » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:56 am

Gorilla Warfare wrote:I have to admit, i read all steve's posts several times, they're too good to just read once :roll:
Oh great :roll: talk about inviting the devil to dinner....lol

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