Official England Thread (Football)

stYx · Post by **stYx** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:15 pm

Kamui wrote:
Logan wrote:Just out of form. We all know what he's capable of. He's just not pulling it off at the World Cup. Pity.
Yeah a big pity

Is anyone watching the portugal/ Holland match?
Its constant fights and yellow cards!! I think 7 portugese players have been booked so far!

Portugal 1
Holland 0

Portugal got 7 yellow cards and 2 red
Holland got 5 yellow cards and 2 red

Talk about a violent match, lol

Kamui · Post by **Kamui** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:24 pm

haha it was a fantastic match!!

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:48 pm

Its good for us. Portugal will now be without Deco and one or two others because of these cards

Kamui · Post by **Kamui** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:50 pm

Deco and costinha will both miss our match! and possibly Figo if FIFA take action against him for that headbutt or whatever it was

stYx · Post by **stYx** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:45 am

Excellent news for us! When do we play next and what time is the match?

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:06 am

Next Saturday, 1600.

Was just reading this on the BBC website:

Former England captain Terry Butcher stands by his claims that David Beckham should have been dropped for the World Cup win against Ecuador.

Beckham's single strike set up a quarter-final against Portugal.

Butcher told BBC Sport: "He has rammed my words down my throat and I don't have a problem with that - but I stand by every word.

"Wayne Rooney needs help up front. You have got to sacrifice a midfield player and, for me, that was Beckham."

Butcher explained: "The only player who had not really performed to his capabilities before the Ecuador game was David Beckham."

And the former Ipswich and Rangers defender revealed he was willing to discuss his criticism of Beckham face-to-face with the England captain, if he wished.

Butcher said: "David has answered me with his goal.

"I accept that and I have not got a problem with that and if I see him I don't know what he will do but I am fully prepared to talk it out with him.

Sven-Goran Eriksson is never, ever going to drop David Beckham

Terry Butcher

"We all like to see England win. No-one likes to receive criticism like that but that is my opinion and I will give it honestly.

"If David has a problem he can come and see me. He knows what hotel room I am in."

But Butcher - who labelled England's display against Ecuador as "shocking" - added that he now believes there is no way boss Sven-Goran Eriksson will leave out Beckham before his reign ends at the World Cup in Germany.

He said: "It is completely immaterial what I think the formation will be because David Beckham will play in the next game.

"Eriksson is never, ever going to drop Beckham. He said he would do but I don't think he ever will.

"Beckham has contributed to quite a few goals recently but I look at the England team and I think it is strangulated. It is constricted.

"There is no freedom, there is no expansion, there is no free-flowing football as you have seen from Mexico and Argentina and as you have seen from Germany.

"And yet if you look at the players there is all that there."

Whats everyones opinion? The way I look at it, Butcher is wrong. What if we'd dropped Beckham? That free kick and ONLY goal would never have existed. And lets face it, there weren't too many others out on the pitch who looked like scoring. His comment about Beckham being the only player to have underperformed upto the Ecquador game is just tripe! Most of the team has underperformed.

stYx · Post by **stYx** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:15 am

Tbh, i dont think Becks has played particulary bad this world cup, sure the last match wasnt his best, but, he played no differently than the rest of the team! imho they all had a sh*t match! If anyone should be dropped it would be Lampard, I seriously dont see why people rate him at all, his passes are sh*t and 90% off target, and his shooting accuracy? Maybe he'd be better going in for Rugby or something! Tbh, im extremely glad it was Becks who scored last night!

Sword-Nymph · Post by **Sword-Nymph** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:54 am

Kamui wrote:Deco and costinha will both miss our match! and possibly Figo if FIFA take action against him for that headbutt or whatever it was

lmao if we don't walk it on Sat we don't DESERVE to win the cup.
Really did you see THAT "headbutt" tbh he barely touched the guy it was more like a nudge

I only saw the highlights as I was working yesterday
but OMG what a entertaining match, I know that's not what footballs about but I couldn't help but laugh.

England HAVE to pick thier game up now .... we need to see better form from Lampard he's been shocking, and note to Sven don't leave Rooney by himself. Yes he played well but by the Gods he only just got fit !!!!

Gorilla Warfairy · Post by **Gorilla Warfairy** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:58 am

The way I see it we have to play 4-4-2 and we have to play Carrick if we want the best out of this England side. Four years ago we played some really good football with a holding player and there's no reason why we can't do so again.
Therefore there are four choices:
a) Drop Lampard
b) Drop Gerrard
c) Drop Beckham and put Gerrard on the right
d) Drop Cole and play Gerrard on the left.

Of the four I personally would go with a) because I don't think Lampard has been anywhere near his best so far in this tournament but I can fully understand Buthcer's viewpoint. Gerrard has had some brilliant performances on the right for Liverpool this season and he offers a more direct attacking style along the flank compared to Beckham, this in return could provide England with a better balance across the park but I doubt we'll be given the chance to find out at this tournament.

I don't like the new formation and I thought it was a terrible performance to be honest. We only scored one goal against one of the weakest sides left in the competition and it had to come from a dead ball situation. Without getting the balance right we are not playing the footballl we should in open play and hence we are not scoring as many as we should.
As far as I can see it the only reason that we played the formation we did yesterday is because Sven is trying to hide the fact that he lacks the balls to drop one of his star players for the sake of the team and to try to cover up the fact that he didn't take enough strikers and that one of those he did turns out to be nowhere near as good a player as the rest of the people in the squad. Apparently Jermaine Jenas is in the squad. Why? He may have had a good season and he may actually be a better player than some other members of the squad but when will he get a game in te middle of the park with all the other players who can also play there?

Walcot shouldn't have been in the squad because he's too inexperienced and just not good enough.
Jenas shouldn't be in the squad because there are already too many players ahead of him in te pecking order for his favoured position.

Drop those two and there would have been room for two decent strikers in the squad. However it's too late to do anything about it now and we have to just play Rooney and Crouch and hope nothing happens to either of them for the rest of the tournament.

stYx · Post by **stYx** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:08 am

Tbh im not a footie fan

so i have no idea whether these players are an asset to their clubs or not, all i can go on is how they have played in the matches i have seen so far. Out of those 4 choices, id have to agree with a. Gerrard, Beckham and Cole have all had much better games (apart from the match against sweden), but Lampard hasnt had 1 decent match this world cup.

As for the formation, I thought last nights was a better choice for England. We seemed to dominate midfield alot more than we have in previous games. Although we did leave our defence open a few times too! :/ It was just a pity that Rooney was all alone and some of the passes to him were shocking. If it hadnt of been for Becks goal i think we would of struggled to actually put one in the net by any other means. Having said all that, might of been better to start with a 4-4-2 and then switch once we had the goal advantage! *shrugs* I suppose Sven must know what hes doing somewhat!

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:36 am

People rate Lampard because he's a damned good player. Recent seasons he's bagged double figures in goals for Chelsea, impressive from a midfield player, scoring 19 total in one season. That's more then any Chelsea player in recent history - and more then some strikers get! IIRC he appeared in every game for Chelsea last season (Premiership and domestic at least), meaning he has the performance and the stamina.

Tell me, has Gerrard done so well for Liverpool? Not really. He's bagged important goals for Liverpool, no question, so has Lampard for Chelsea.

In the world cup, Lampard is just not playing to the best of his ability for whatever reason, whether its the formation or quality of pass etc. that's not working for him, but there is nobody who can question his ability when you stare at the facts at club level.

Everyone will critiscise him for the misses, but conveniently forget the positions he works himself into at times and how many shots he's had. He's probably the most proliffic threat of a shot this World Cup then any other player in the squad! Think hard, who do you remember having shots in an England shirt this world cup? Lampard would be one of the very few, who else has threatened the goal!? Not many.

Its probably too late for him now, but hopefully he'll find his form against Portugal and net a few. If that happens, watch the media U-turn on Lampard.

stYx · Post by **stYx** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:42 am

Logan wrote:People rate Lampard because he's a damned good player. Recent seasons he's bagged double figures in goals for Chelsea, impressive from a midfield player, scoring 19 total in one season. That's more then any Chelsea player in recent history - and more then some strikers get! IIRC he appeared in every game for Chelsea last season (Premiership and domestic at least), meaning he has the performance and the stamina.

Tell me, has Gerrard done so well for Liverpool? Not really. He's bagged important goals for Liverpool, no question, so has Lampard for Chelsea.

In the world cup, Lampard is just not playing to the best of his ability for whatever reason, whether its the formation or quality of pass etc. that's not working for him, but there is nobody who can question his ability when you stare at the facts at club level.

Everyone will critiscise him for the misses, but conveniently forget the positions he works himself into at times and how many shots he's had. He's probably the most proliffic threat of a shot this World Cup then any other player in the squad! Think hard, who do you remember having shots in an England shirt this world cup? Lampard would be one of the very few, who else has threatened the goal!? Not many.

Its probably too late for him now, but hopefully he'll find his form against Portugal and net a few. If that happens, watch the media U-turn on Lampard.

Unforntuately, playing well for his club, doesnt help us win the World Cup! As much as he might be a damn good club player, his ability has yet to show itself during this world cup! I'd like to see him put a few goals away too, but that wouldnt change the fact that so far he's delivered squat! Also id put Rooney, Gerrand, Crouch well above Lampard in the Goal threat stakes.

I do agree that the media will do a u-turn if he scores. They always do!

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:49 am

stYx wrote:Unforntuately, playing well for his club, doesnt help us win the World Cup! As much as he might be a damn good club player, his ability has yet to show itself during this world cup!

Surely the same could be said about several other players in the squad I could name.

stYx wrote:I'd like to see him put a few goals away too, but that wouldnt change the fact that so far he's delivered squat!

Course it would! Were a fickle people, a fickle media. He'd be God like if he put a few away in the next game to take us through, guaranteed.

stYx wrote:Also id put Rooney, Gerrand, Crouch well above Lampard in the Goal threat stakes.

You what!? Rooney!? When has he had a shot on goal!? Crouch!? Again, when!? Gerrard may have scored but he's not had that many other shots.

Point I was making was not goal threat, but threat of 'shots'. Lampard has had tons more shots then any other player, just a pity he's f*cked them all up!

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:54 am

BTW I'm not defending Lampards performance this World Cup, its blatantly obvious that along with several others, he's underperforming. However, I will defend the fact he is a great player, and the facts and statistics prove that.

stYx · Post by **stYx** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:58 am

Logan wrote:
stYx wrote:Unforntuately, playing well for his club, doesnt help us win the World Cup! As much as he might be a damn good club player, his ability has yet to show itself during this world cup!
Surely the same could be said about several other players in the squad I could name.

stYx wrote:I'd like to see him put a few goals away too, but that wouldnt change the fact that so far he's delivered squat!
Course it would! Were a fickle people, a fickle media. He'd be God like if he put a few away in the next game to take us through, guaranteed.

stYx wrote:Also id put Rooney, Gerrand, Crouch well above Lampard in the Goal threat stakes.
You what!? Rooney!? When has he had a shot on goal!? Crouch!? Again, when!? Gerrard may have scored but he's not had that many other shots.

Point I was making was not goal threat, but threat of 'shots'. Lampard has had tons more shots then any other player, just a pity he's f*cked them all up!

Im sorry mate, but if you think that makes him a threat because he has tons of shots and missed them all then im not sure how to respond. I suppose its monkeys and typewriters in that situation!

Crouch has already scored this world cup hasnt he? Someone who scores goals is more of a threat than someone who f*cks them all up!

Lampard has played in all matches from start to finishes hasnt he? How many goals has he scored from how many 'shots'? In my opinion someone who can belt the ball all around the goal but in the back of the net is of no use to us. He might as well be skipping and picking flowers for all the good its doing us.

But on a serious note, you cant actually believe he is a threat, can you?

BTW I'm not defending Lampards performance this World Cup, its blatantly obvious that along with several others, he's underperforming. However, I will defend the fact he is a great player, and the facts and statistics prove that.

Like i said i dont watch or follow club football, so i cant comment on that aspect. But i do understand where your coming from with your arguments. But look at it from my/other point of view. If you had not seen Lampard play for Chelsea, and had only watched his World Cup matches, would you still think that much of him?