Thoughts on a sword ban...

Discuss your hobby with other sword enthusiasts

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Hatamoto
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Post by Hatamoto » Sun May 28, 2006 6:29 pm

Angelus, ta much

Lexxorcist, you b*tch :twisted:

What is it with the Welsh bashing on this board? lol

Welshies unite against the oppressors! But that's for another thread, which I may make later 8)

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Sun May 28, 2006 6:32 pm

I'm not Welshist. Some of my best friends are Welsh... :D

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Moon
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Post by Moon » Sun May 28, 2006 9:43 pm

Lexxorcist wrote:I thought South Wales was still governed by the village elders. :twisted:
It is but they're called MP's nowadays. :roll:

LadyPoison
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Post by LadyPoison » Sun May 28, 2006 10:39 pm

You can email Jonathan.Batt@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk at the home office for further details or to give your opinions on the possible ban! :)

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BlackRonin
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Post by BlackRonin » Mon May 29, 2006 4:56 am

could be the pessimist in me, but, like they really care unless they get so many opposed that should they bring the aaw in they womt get re-ellected

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Hatamoto
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Post by Hatamoto » Mon May 29, 2006 7:09 am

I'd say it was the realist in you :( I'd be inclined to say the same, except I only just got up, so thank you for beating me there :)

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Mon May 29, 2006 1:50 pm

I'm going to bury mine down the edge of a precipice.

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Tempest UK
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Post by Tempest UK » Mon May 29, 2006 3:12 pm

I've said it before and I've said it again: if the government drafts up a ban, they won't wee wee about writing in nice little exemptions for us or sword-licensing plans. Ban = ban. By all means contact your local MP; they're there to represent you, after all, but don't expect that to actually get you anywhere. If you're lucky, it will get a mention in the House of Commons when the bill is being read, but you'll need a damn good case for an exemption, and in the eyes of the government we don't have one.

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Mon May 29, 2006 3:31 pm

So many people have swords of some description in their homes, it would be a major thing banning all of them. If they're specific about what kind of sword is legal and illegal there could be loop-holes.

I know they wanted nunchaku banned, but that didn't seem to work, even though until 2000 they were even banned from British movies. Kubotans with spikes on the side aren't banned because they don't actually cover the knuckles. I know they're different things, but there's always hope.

I know the government don't like to mess about with things like this, but they have in the past. When they banned (live ammo) hand guns for sportsmen, they legalised co2 guns. More recently they banned Brocock (self-contained air cartridge) guns, but co2 are still legal despite being equally powerful and almost as authentic looking.

It really does seem madness to ban swords when they're never going to ban kitchen knives - which can be just as damaging and easier to conceal. Can you imagine walking round town with a concealed katana? :S

I actually think a sword ban might get the government more boos than hurrahs.

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Tempest UK
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Post by Tempest UK » Mon May 29, 2006 3:38 pm

I doubt that very much...seeing as pretty much all of the "boos" would be coming from minority groups that are very easy to simply ignore, whereas the masses will be quite happy to hear that such awful weapons have finally been criminalised after so may horrific news stories.

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Caladras
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Post by Caladras » Mon May 29, 2006 3:42 pm

The main trouble with this government, apart from being a bunch of morons who can't run a country, is that said morons are so worried about getting re-elected. No one wants to try anything even slightly radical in case in 4 years time it is the opposition in power. But it's been said before people who are willing to break the law by stabbing someone, are just as likely to be willing enough break a ban. The only thing that this will stop is the spur of the moment stabbings that happen in the house, and in honesty how many of those are committed by a sword? I'd place my bet on a pair of scissors or a kitchen knife. Basically the government cannot be bothered to do the proper research into the sword collecting community to find out how to go about setting up a new law. The MP's are so out of touch it's not even funny.

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Mon May 29, 2006 4:09 pm

Tempest UK wrote:I doubt that very much...seeing as pretty much all of the "boos" would be coming from minority groups that are very easy to simply ignore, whereas the masses will be quite happy to hear that such awful weapons have finally been criminalised after so may horrific news stories.
I hear you, but I'm wondering how large a minority group a total sword ban will cover. If it covers all display swords I imagine it to be quite a large minorty group that'll be effected. Also if the goverment want to ban a large, hard to conceal and deadly weapon to make themsevles popluar I'm suprised the air rifle has survived. I'm aware of many air gun related incidents which caused outcrys, but before I saw them mentioned on here - I'd never heard of a sword killing in the UK.

I'm not being anti airgun here as I have some myself, but I'd have thought they would get prioriy if the governement were after looking good. The thing is, airguns are another weapon that would effect a large minority.

While the majority of non-sword and airgun owners might react with "well they're dangrous so fair enough", I can't see that winning many votes. Whereas the significant minorities of owners would be up in arms with the governemnt (so to speak) for banning them.

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Tempest UK
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Post by Tempest UK » Mon May 29, 2006 5:08 pm

To use my old favourite of the ban on replica firearms (airsoft etc) as an example again: people who already had the replicas were not going to be forced to hand them in. They'll be angry and oppose the ban, of course, but they still get to keep what they have. I'd imagine any possible ban on swords would be the same (i.e. a ban on the sale, import and manufacture of swords).

So whilst the number of people who own swords, considering almost every other person seems to have some form of SS wallhanger lying around, is quite large, they're unlikely to be vocal enough to oppose the ban because they don't really need/want to buy any more, and what they already have isn't under threat. So then we are left with what really is a small minority to oppose any ban, consisting of active collectors and martial arts practitioners. If there is any chance of an exemption, then I'd imagine martial arts practitioners would be the ones to get it. But, then again, our own olympic teams can't train with their firearms in the UK, so I wouldn't put it past the ol' gov'mint to just tell the lot of them to get lost.

If they were to make ownership illegal as well, then there would be more opposition. This, coupled with the fact that it would be an immense effort to get them all handed in, and nearly impossible to enforce further down the line, is exactly why they will just ban import, sale and manufacture.

LadyPoison
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Post by LadyPoison » Mon May 29, 2006 5:21 pm

I recieved the following reply from Jonathan Batt:

The Government is considering banning samurai swords due to their use in violent crime. They are also considering whether exemptions or defences should be provided for certain types of activities. I should add that we are looking carefully at the definition of “samurai sword.”

It is an offence under section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 to sell, manufacture or import any of the offensive weapons listed in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988. There are currently 17 weapons listed in that Order. The Violent Crime Reduction Bill currently before Parliament amends this legislation to provide for exemptions and defences specific to certain weapons, either in respect of weapons which are listed in the Order, or ones which may be added in the future.

We intend to consult formally on our proposals in the next few months. I will ensure that you and other interested parties have the opportunity to comment on the Government’s proposals.


So hmmm sounds like the ban is specifically aimed at 'Samurai' swords, rather than all swords. Though why they're more worthy of a ban than other sword types seems to make little sense!!

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Lexxorcist
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Post by Lexxorcist » Mon May 29, 2006 5:35 pm

I thought it was an ownership ban everyone was worried about. I'm not sure airsoft guns are a good thing to compare with as they're not that dangerous. Isn't it more a case of them looking like real firearms that caused problems? I don't know much about the problems facing airsoft owners, but it seems pretty silly to ban them when you can still go out and buy a 6 ft/lbs air/co2 pistol (including repeaters) and 12 ft/lbs air/co2 rifles over the counter.

I do know that when live ammo handguns were banned, all owners had to hand them in. If there's a ban on swords but you're allowed to keep the ones you have, I can't see how that would work too well. There'd still be sh*t loads floating about and people who bought them after the ban could just say they'd had them ages. I hope you're right though, because if current owners have to give them up, they won't be properly compensated. Hand gun owners got pretty much scrap value for theirs as I recall.

The whole thing frustrates me really. When that farmer shot an un-armed suspected thief in the back (with a pump action shot gun!) he was jailed but there was huge public sympathy for him, and the general feeling seemed to be that he had a right to defend himself (or more so in that case - his property). At the same time, we're kind of saying we shouldn't have a right to own such things even as collectors pieces or for sport. We're a fickle nation if you ask me.

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