better pics of bowie

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wtf?
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better pics of bowie

Postby wtf? » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:05 pm

from the other thread. heres some better pics (a mate just came round with a camera phone).

like i said, its a p*ss poor shaping so far. but DS wanted to see something that i had done. this is relivent in 2 places... something i had done, and pointing out that this takes AGES on hard steel. for those that say its crap... yeah, your right. it USED to be a machette, but it snapped months ago, and during a rant with DS, and shaping hardened steels, i took it, and tried to reshape it. this is a couple of hours worth of work.

like i said, its OLD. the blade is from 1943, and its a millitary issue blade. its seen a world war, and is 63 years old. and i wasnt trying to do a decent job here... just prove a point. but its here anyway so people can see... its not impossible to make a knife. just do it.

Image

Image

and the date stamp, plus millitary marking.

Image

sorry its low def... camera. its 1943

this is just the blank so far. i might profile the edge, etc, and mount it if i can be bothered. and this could be done in about 30mins with normal steels. for anyone that wants to try.
Image
God i LOVE these things.

Image

Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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Re: better pics of bowie

Postby darksun_uk » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:46 am

wtf? wrote:from the other thread. heres some better pics (a mate just came round with a camera phone).

like i said, its a p*ss poor shaping so far. but DS wanted to see something that i had done. this is relivent in 2 places... something i had done, and pointing out that this takes AGES on hard steel. for those that say its crap... yeah, your right. it USED to be a machette, but it snapped months ago, and during a rant with DS, and shaping hardened steels, i took it, and tried to reshape it. this is a couple of hours worth of work.

like i said, its OLD. the blade is from 1943, and its a millitary issue blade. its seen a world war, and is 63 years old. and i wasnt trying to do a decent job here... just prove a point. but its here anyway so people can see... its not impossible to make a knife. just do it.

Image

Image

and the date stamp, plus millitary marking.

Image

sorry its low def... camera. its 1943

this is just the blank so far. i might profile the edge, etc, and mount it if i can be bothered. and this could be done in about 30mins with normal steels. for anyone that wants to try.



i am a little confused now and i suspect a lot of people are, i have sent 2 links to you (link to retailers therefore i cannot repost them here) of a world famous bladesmith posting that it is possible to work on hard steel to reshape small areas of blades without damage to the exsisting heat treat and making a small knife in the way i described therefore is perfectly possible in the way i have posted it and reposted below...my bench/angle grinder seems to work fine in this regard so i dont know what all the fuss is about really i dont.


but then if you really want to argue the merits of it do so with arik not me as i simply do this as a serious hobby so the hours spent carefully grinding and shaping steel is a pleasure to me for the end result i dont particulary like working with steel lol., you obviously are into the whole bladesmith thing and thats great but one point i have to make


wtf? wrote:
i'll take it, and a sai, i'll cut the sai apart, mill out the right size hole. reshape the sai section to be more slimlined, and make a traditional tsuka core, then wrap it. i got some old PPK fittings here i can throw on for it.

to wrap a tsuka core,

as for balance... not sure, havent done one.


wtf? wrote:even make a comparison between yours, and mine (in the long run). and to be honest... thats the only reason id want it... to break it up.


is that a sai sword will not balance out if a wooden tsuka is used i did it mate it is a bad idea....plus a wooden hilt will simply never be as strong as solid pegged epoxy (not glue) welded steel, and the hilt wrap needs to be smooth not ribbed like a traditional one that would affect grip/flip function.

so if you want to swap a blade for a sai sword your still welcome to one but your version wont be a sai sword with a wooden hilt it wont balance or grip/flip the way a sai sword should and it will fail under stress that a solid steel one would shrug off.



it might look nicer (maybe) but i made these as weapons not display items.

when you develop your own hybrid weapon style (as i have clearly done based on thousands of hours of research testing and sai/sai sword experience over a decade of time) you get to call the parameters as i have done above,until then i suggest if you make a sai sword you make a sai sword your wooden hilted wobbly balanced hard to grip/flip one wont be, a nice display item but not a sai sword weapon, i really have nothing else to say on the subject other than your thought process would have led you to make a display item, all you can do my friend is make a version of my creation im sorry but that is the plain truth, all i did in truth was make a standard for a virtually unknown hybrid weapon i did not create the idea of a sai sword as such i refined and codified it into a standard item (one that you can make a version of if you want). and you yourself (bladesmith) are as we all are in fact standing on the shoulders of the giants that came before us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


in conclusion:-

therefore this option. which i stated was not preferable to working on then heat treating. is perfectly possible.

note that i am refering to a small size tanto or seax style blade with uniform thickness max 2mm (no profile at all therefore much much less grinding and no use of a belt sander/grinder)


3 or 4 cuts to make the blade shape and tang etc (using carefull light dipping motions to not overheat the steel and with some cold water handy as well) with an angle grinder on a saw blade(the thickness is not the issue its as thick as its going to be apart from the bevel of the edge=virtually no profiling at all) and then a quick run through a power sharpner followed by hand sharpening and maybe a bit of polishing= a knife blade...
add the handle and bobs your uncle i have seen knives made this way....

note i say angle grinder for the long cuts its really only like a scaled up dremel cut.....

i can make one if you really want me to just to absolutly prove the point beyond doubt but like with sai swords mate why would i bother making a blade when i can just buy one lol.....i have only ever been interested in weapons mate NOT blades/blade making blah blah blah....i know about it i have books and so on and so on but i really dont care honestly.

the point is it is possible to do as a hobby outlet for someone if they were stuck for other options for whatever reason...

(if you still disagree argue it out with arik NOT me)




wtf? wrote:
so in closing... Sir Fremont... regardless of what DS has said here... its not possible to make a blade from hardenened steel with a $40 grinder, and hand tools. you'd have just as much of a chance builing the golden gate bridge out of chocolate.... sorry Darksun.


it is though, just not in the way your meant and i was not specific enough originally therefore you got carried away.




im sorry if (by omission) i led you to post a load of off topic stuff (some of which imho was a bit below the belt) however it is worth pointing out that anyone wanting to get into anything to do with weapon smithing or fabrication will do hundreds of hours of research (they damm well should) before picking up any tools and if your short on cash and resources then the method i have described is one possible solution there simply is no way to argue otherwise and that is all there is to it.

i did not take the time to frame my original post as i should as i took the research part for granted (mistake) and you took that to litterally, later on. (your mistake) (the research would easily reveal everthing i have posted as fact as the links i have sent you prove beyond question)

as to what is preferable i already posted that clearly before you launched your ill advised tirade, admittadly after i left the opening but i have admitted as much and now you should fess up and do the same....


over to you.

kind regards

*edit*

as to the pictures posted, very nice for a first effort (if someone posted it) i would be impressed it looks like a knife and after slapping a hilt on and sharpening it (both simple enough jobs) it would be great...

cutting a saw blade out to shape and doing the same would be easier (if you used an angel grinder for the cuts) i would make one but i dont have a saw blade and as i said this whole issue is i feel now moot lets move on shall we ?
Image

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Re: better pics of bowie

Postby wtf? » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:34 am

darksun_uk wrote:

i am a little confused now and i suspect a lot of people are, i have sent 2 links to you (link to retailers therefore i cannot repost them here) of a world famous bladesmith posting that it is possible to work on hard steel to reshape small areas of blades without damage to the exsisting heat treat and making a small knife in the way i described therefore is perfectly possible in the way i have posted it and reposted below...my bench/angle grinder seems to work fine in this regard so i dont know what all the fuss is about really i dont.


but then if you really want to argue the merits of it do so with arik not me as i simply do this as a serious hobby so the hours spent carefully grinding and shaping steel is a pleasure to me for the end result i dont particulary like working with steel lol., you obviously are into the whole bladesmith thing and thats great but one point i have to make


wtf? wrote:
i'll take it, and a sai, i'll cut the sai apart, mill out the right size hole. reshape the sai section to be more slimlined, and make a traditional tsuka core, then wrap it. i got some old PPK fittings here i can throw on for it.

to wrap a tsuka core,

as for balance... not sure, havent done one.


wtf? wrote:even make a comparison between yours, and mine (in the long run). and to be honest... thats the only reason id want it... to break it up.


is that a sai sword will not balance out if a wooden tsuka is used i did it mate it is a bad idea....plus a wooden hilt will simply never be as strong as solid pegged epoxy (not glue) welded steel, and the hilt wrap needs to be smooth not ribbed like a traditional one that would affect grip/flip function.

so if you want to swap a blade for a sai sword your still welcome to one but your version wont be a sai sword with a wooden hilt it wont balance or grip/flip the way a sai sword should and it will fail under stress that a solid steel one would shrug off.



it might look nicer (maybe) but i made these as weapons not display items.


i have no idea how i would go about making one, i simply have never cared enough. but off the top of my head, thats how i would do it. and im pretty sure that a tsuka design that served the smiths of japan for all those years would hold up quite well.. but as i dont build sai sword... it really doesnt matter.


when you develop your own hybrid weapon style (as i have clearly done based on thousands of hours of research testing and sai/sai sword experience over a decade of time) you get to call the parameters as i have done above,until then i suggest if you make a sai sword you make a sai sword your wooden hilted wobbly balanced hard to grip/flip one wont be, a nice display item but not a sai sword weapon, i really have nothing else to say on the subject other than your thought process would have led you to make a display item, all you can do my friend is make a version of my creation im sorry but that is the plain truth, all i did in truth was make a standard for a virtually unknown hybrid weapon i did not create the idea of a sai sword as such i refined and codified it into a standard item (one that you can make a version of if you want). and you yourself (bladesmith) are as we all are in fact standing on the shoulders of the giants that came before us.

i dont intend on making my own hybrid art. nor make a 'display sai sword' i was going too, if i could be bothered make a version to show how easy it would be. you can blab on about the design parameters all day long, but i think you'll find... i really dont care about sai swords in the slightest. i never brought them up. i really didnt. just comented on them when you mentioned them. and not even their design parameters. but the fact that their not made, merely assembled.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


in conclusion:-

therefore this option. which i stated was not preferable to working on then heat treating. is perfectly possible.

note that i am refering to a small size tanto or seax style blade with uniform thickness max 2mm (no profile at all therefore much much less grinding and no use of a belt sander/grinder)


3 or 4 cuts to make the blade shape and tang etc (using carefull light dipping motions to not overheat the steel and with some cold water handy as well) with an angle grinder on a saw blade(the thickness is not the issue its as thick as its going to be apart from the bevel of the edge=virtually no profiling at all) and then a quick run through a power sharpner followed by hand sharpening and maybe a bit of polishing= a knife blade...
add the handle and bobs your uncle i have seen knives made this way....

note i say angle grinder for the long cuts its really only like a scaled up dremel cut.....

i can make one if you really want me to just to absolutly prove the point beyond doubt but like with sai swords mate why would i bother making a blade when i can just buy one lol.....i have only ever been interested in weapons mate NOT blades/blade making blah blah blah....i know about it i have books and so on and so on but i really dont care honestly.

the point is it is possible to do as a hobby outlet for someone if they were stuck for other options for whatever reason...

(if you still disagree argue it out with arik NOT me)


dont care why you do it. and you might want to make the blades instead of buy them as you call yourself a maker of swords. it might be nice if you actually made them. y'know... shown some skill in crafting something that wasnt there before. turning raw material into something of interest. any tom, dick, or harry can mod something they have bought. but either way... i dont bloody care about sai swords



wtf? wrote:
so in closing... Sir Fremont... regardless of what DS has said here... its not possible to make a blade from hardenened steel with a $40 grinder, and hand tools. you'd have just as much of a chance builing the golden gate bridge out of chocolate.... sorry Darksun.


it is though, just not in the way your meant and i was not specific enough originally therefore you got carried away.


im sorry if (by omission) i led you to post a load of off topic stuff (some of which imho was a bit below the belt) however it is worth pointing out that anyone wanting to get into anything to do with weapon smithing or fabrication will do hundreds of hours of research


no they dont. and nor should they. its working with files, and metal. a little safty is all thats needed. were talking making something... spend hundreds of hours reading. i didnt. some other makers i know didnt. some people learn about cars as a hobby, and dont spend their lives in books. engineering is as much about doing as it is knowing. its a physical skill, not a mental one... but i wouldnt expect you to get that. your too happy stuck in a book.

(they damm well should) before picking up any tools and if your short on cash and resources then the method i have described is one possible solution there simply is no way to argue otherwise and that is all there is to it.

i did not take the time to frame my original post as i should as i took the research part for granted (mistake) and you took that to litterally, later on. (your mistake) (the research would easily reveal everthing i have posted as fact as the links i have sent you prove beyond question)

as to what is preferable i already posted that clearly before you launched your ill advised tirade, admittadly after i left the opening but i have admitted as much and now you should fess up and do the same....

i was done with this when the other thread got locked. so i cant be arsed,

*edit*

as to the pictures posted, very nice for a first effort (if someone posted it) i would be impressed it looks like a knife and after slapping a hilt on and sharpening it (both simple enough jobs) it would be great...

cutting a saw blade out to shape and doing the same would be easier (if you used an angel grinder for the cuts) i would make one but i dont have a saw blade and as i said this whole issue is i feel now moot lets move on shall we ?


its actually crap. it was done for me to test cutting on hard steel with little care, and thought. like i said, it was a scraper before now. and a snapped machete before then.... but as firsts go... i guess it is ok seeing as ive never touched hardened steel before as a raw/starting material.

for reference, to be a knife it would need to be thinned, the handle profiled, blade profiled, steel brought back to relieve pitting, and i'd need to make bolsters, and other fittings for it... which i wasnt considering doing for scrap metal. but someone mentioned on msn that seeing as its such an old blade that it shouldnt go to waste. so i may just mount it.

like i said before, you can have the thing as you seemed overly worried that you hadnt seen anything ive done. dont want cash, or trade... its scrap metal. if it ever gets done... take it.

but it looks like im in good stead if your already impressed by a bad rush job, on bad steel.

but through all this i wasnt trying to rehash an arguement. i put the pics here because they were better quality, and you asked for them. and to show that if you want to make blades then you can do a lot with little effort.... although i do have better equiptment than most.
Image

God i LOVE these things.



Image



Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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Re: better pics of bowie

Postby darksun_uk » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:01 am

wtf? wrote:no they dont. and nor should they. its working with files, and metal. a little safty is all thats needed. were talking making something... spend hundreds of hours reading. i didnt. some other makers i know didnt. some people learn about cars as a hobby, and dont spend their lives in books. engineering is as much about doing as it is knowing. its a physical skill, not a mental one... but i wouldnt expect you to get that. your too happy stuck in a book.



yeah basic common sense saftey and applied basic knowledge goes a long way i know this from experience.

a few hundred hours hitting the books can never be a bad idea shame on you for saying otherwise.

learning by actually doing certain activites like making a concept years in the planning come to life in steel hmm i wonder if i could do that..oh wait i have. 8)

i truly hope you get to the same place (on a career level that is)

wtf? wrote:but it looks like im in good stead if your already impressed by a bad rush job, on bad steel.



lol omg read my post...actually read it ffs.....

what i said was if someone posted it, as in a first time effort from a new forum member i would be impressed and rightly so..
as it is an example of a knife like object made from hard steel the entire point of my posting the (now proven) concept :S


kind regards
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Postby wtf? » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:16 am

im afraid i havent read you post yet. its 5.15am... but i just nabbed my dads phone which has a camera. and thought id add what i CAN make. so if you'll wait out for a few mins, i have a set of knives that i made up about a year ago. they were for a mate who didnt want them in the end. im glad to say ive come leaps and bounds in that time. i also havent touched these sinse i put them away. thought it best to show earlier works, and leave new ones for the new website.

Image

Image

1050 blades. hardened to 55rc (by someone else). ivory handles, copper bolsters, with brass pins. so theres something i CAN do when given the time. and when i put in the effort.

and yeah... i got what you meant when you said about a new poster. i was just pointing out (just in case) that this isnt the work i do. cus id hate to get pegged with that.

i really need a camera, those pics dont do justice to the blades. and they feel amazing in the hand. for now they will do, but i'll try to arrange something a bit more detailed. with backdrop, or context.

*edit*
with a blade polish, and some brasso for the fittings, they look a LOT nicer... i guess i should have thought of that before piccing them... but im sure you get the idea.
Image

God i LOVE these things.



Image



Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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Postby wtf? » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:42 am

oh... i should also say that the ivory was reconstituted... and as such legal.
Image

God i LOVE these things.



Image



Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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Postby darksun_uk » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:42 am

im not to keen on the larger of the two to be honest (its still nice enough though) but there is something very appealing about the smaller one i seem to remember seeing that blade profile before but for the life of me i cannot seem to place it....arrggh it reminds me of the tip section of one of my naginata sai swords but im sure thats not the thing im really thinking of cracking looking blade for a reverse gripper like me lol, ah well i will try and figure it out tomorrow my guild has lost the battle now anyway(online international gaming=no sleep lol) im off to bed.
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Postby wtf? » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:45 am

the smaller of the two is based on skinning large game. and its close to many skinners in that respect... apart from that, no idea. and they both grip very well reversed.
Image

God i LOVE these things.



Image



Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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Postby sprout » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:26 pm

the bottom one reminds me a little of the blade profile that the tom brown tracker has, with a differnt handle design.
Image
wtf? wrote:like looking for mensa candidates in a jerry springer trailor park

don't click this link...

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Postby darksun_uk » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:59 pm

i remember now the knife in question was a larger skinning knife(for elk/moose) on a swedish bladesmiths website that i came across whilst looking for damascus billets (long story) the handle area was similar in design though the materiels where different the blade on this one was cable damascus from a supplier in the USA.

kind regards
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Postby wtf? » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:13 pm

no idea... i was given a set of idea's and thats what i came up with. but i guess the designs could have been stolen from him. or maybe we just think alike. lol

most people have said that they prefer the small skinner for blade forward, and large for blade reversed. and that for some reason they prefered the smaller generally.

i didnt make them with the above in mind though. they were made as a skinner, and camp utility combo.... which they may excell at. i dont know. lol

really should get rid of them, their just gathering dust at the mo.
Image

God i LOVE these things.



Image



Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.

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Postby Moon » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:14 am

wtf? wrote:really should get rid of them, their just gathering dust at the mo.


In that case...send 'em over to me for a completely impartial and free appraisal and if I don't like 'em I'll send 'em back.......maybe. (H)
"Wise men speak because they have something to say: fools because they have to say something"...Plato

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Postby wtf? » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:29 am

i thought you might say that. lol

dont worry... one of my passarounds will, no doubt, wing its way to you.
Image

God i LOVE these things.



Image



Im not sure what weapons will be used to fight WWIII, but i know that WWIV will be waged with wooden sticks.


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