my project (pics)

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Post by Guest » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:10 pm

darksun_uk wrote:
Wraith wrote:
add the strike at the end or imagine a retreat blocks an incoming fist or foot (there fist/foot hits steel) and your some way to getting the effective use of these weapons.

not to mention the prongs as gouges and trapps and the butt as an aid to punches and the blade struck across the forearm or shin (ouch) or the point struck into the temple,throat, eyes, sub sternal notch or virtually anywhere else...
with the exception of the gouges, and traps, its main function seems to be a batton. the reason i didnt like it as a weapon is the way the prongs seemed to be used. and the fact that thier mainly used in pairs.

because the traps are so widely spaced, their not suited to close quarters fighting where the prongs would be put into position by sliding down the shaft to the target. it also means that you cant employ the traps for wrist locks, im the same way as the jutte.

ive also noticed a trend to not grasp the "tip section" of the "blade" which takes out more than a few locks, throws, chokes, strangles, and submissions.

also,its base is in karate, it lacks some of the more combative techniques that are found with the jutte (i use the jutte as an example, as its the closest counterpart.) the problem with a base in karate is that karate is (by, and large) a strinking art, which doesnt incorperate much grappling, locking, throwing, or pressure/vital point attacks.

the jutte has its base in ju-jutsu, iaido, and ken-jutsu.
interesting points, i will make an effort to research some of the finer points that you mention, i dont suppose you would have a picture of one of the jutte that you use maybe with something else in the picture to give an idea of scale so i can see exactly what your using currently.
Wraith wrote: which doesnt incorperate much grappling, locking, throwing, or pressure/vital point attacks.
i dont suppose you would have a copy of bruce tegners book on pressure points as i use that (as well as my copy of grays) as my main source of target research, as i wanted to incorporate this overview into my practice as much as possible. i would value your opinion on this book as well as any others you might have found usefull (if any).

kind regards
i havent got a digi cam anymore, so i cant do any pics of my equiptment. the jutte im using is of standard design. it follows almost all the measurements of the hanwei version, but with none of the frills.... its just a basic 18" octaganal shaft, with a single trap... no fancy designs, just a working weapon. if you really need a pic, i should be able to get a mates cam.

as for usefull books.... cant say i really use books for learning purposes... i use them more as a reference..... interesting books... theres too many to mention. with the exception of 1, that is.... "Aikido, and the Dynamic Sphere" a fantastic martial arts manual.

my acess to my PC is somewhat sketchy at the mo... so replys may be a bit random in timing.

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Post by darksun_uk » Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:40 pm

Wraith wrote:
i havent got a digi cam anymore, so i cant do any pics of my equiptment. the jutte im using is of standard design. it follows almost all the measurements of the hanwei version,
thats fine, i just wanted to be sure of the dimensions in relation to the hanwei version.

Wraith wrote:
as for usefull books.... cant say i really use books for learning purposes... i use them more as a reference..... interesting books... theres too many to mention.
i was just curious if you had a copy of tegner and what you thought of it . 8)
Wraith wrote:
with the exception of 1, that is.... "Aikido, and the Dynamic Sphere" a fantastic martial arts manual.
interesting i might get that.

kind regards

Jaques

Post by Jaques » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:25 pm

darksun_uk wrote:
Wraith wrote:fair enough, but as a competent martial artist, i will have to "point out" one thing....

"any flipping of the sai (as you will see in my vids) must be 100% correct or things can get messy."

in a combative situation, the more dramatic, and dynamic the technique, the less chance it has of being combat effective, and if only 95% proficiency is achived, things go wrong, then the technique is flawed.

in combative situations, its impossible to get 100% so its possible that such a advanced weapoin will cause yourself injury.... the "flippy, and showy" techniques in kata's are never used in real situations.

basics rule the roost.

(again, not a dig, but a curiosity, and a point of disscussion)

yeah i meant the showy ones really (the double ones in particular) and to an extent the vertical (electra) ones.



the basic defensive to offensive flipp is done in about 0.5 of a second and should be second nature to anyone who practices sai after a few hundred hours or so and as such it is part of kata and fully intergrated into the "art" as taught and demostrated in books etc.

anyone not 100% on the basic (i.e. not got the muscle memory) flipp should not use a sharp sai as a sai untill they are.

the basic flipp:-

sai held in "mid gate" defensive position.
Image

grip is released whilst thumb provides motive force for flipp

Image

midd flipp (this should be to fast to see) the grip is being reformed
Image

full offensive gripp is established approx 0.5 of a second after the move started.
Image


thats the basic move which is performed at a few different angles at speed as part of sai defense and offensive kata (gripping striking and blocking all use the same basic movement)

the more showy flipps come much later and are limited in there martial effectiveness although to demomstrate your level of skill with a sai they are still valid (should give joe numpty with a screwdriver pause for thought)

kind regards
As always I bow to your supirior wisdom. But correct me if I'm wrong (probably) but isn't one of the purposes of sai to use the outer prongs to cover your hand and use to block bladed weapons? I've seen Fumio Demura doing demonstrations (on a documentary) where he uses Sai this way. In the pictures you've demonstrated in that funtion is kind taken away. Bearing in mind I am a clinical idiot. Are there many different techniques of flipping sai and holding them? Or is it the middle prong with is used to block sword strikes across the forearm?

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Post by darksun_uk » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:38 pm

Jaques wrote: one of the purposes of sai to
you answer your own question here when you say "one" use or purpose of sai.
Jaques wrote: . In the pictures you've demonstrated in that funtion is kind taken away.
no in the pictures i demonstrate one basic technique there are many many more....many with more than one function.
Jaques wrote: Are there many different techniques of flipping sai and holding them?
four flips and four grips (approx) some are similar
Jaques wrote: Or is it the middle prong with is used to block sword strikes across the forearm?
the middle prong is called the blade and yes it is used to block or rather to parry an incoming blade

i will be doing a few videos soon that will hopefully make at least a few of these techniques easily understood.

kind regards

kind regards

Jaques

Post by Jaques » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:40 pm

Ok, thanks DS.

*prints out post and adds to DS wisdom book*

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Post by wabhimself » Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:18 pm

awwww..... im a bit of a caffufle now..... l have to decide wether to buy onea your blades that your making with the money im gonna be saving or a lowlander:(

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Killua
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Post by Killua » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:36 pm

darksun_uk wrote: the standard version with a basic storage scabbard (which will also be useable as a jo staff) would be around the £170 mark at retail though this price is at present a rough estimate....
Ah, superb, below what I was expecting.

Out of curiosity, have you tested any of these hybrids? If so, how did they perform?

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Post by darksun_uk » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:19 pm

Killua wrote:
Ah, superb, below what I was expecting.
cool.


Killua wrote: Out of curiosity, have you tested any of these hybrids? If so, how did they perform?
i should be doing some limited test cutting with the new models this weekend.
as far as using the swords for kata and so forth they are superb...

more infomation will be posted very soon as i am very close (2-3weeks) to finishing the whole first batch...

kind regards

2841981

Post by 2841981 » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:31 pm

looking forward to seeing vids

*bows to superior skills and casts nervous glance to where grand father has just seen me bowing to a computer screen*

nath/2841981

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