what is really best?

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froller2
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what is really best?

Post by froller2 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:44 pm

so ive heard alot of stories that "real" katanas made by japanese blacksmiths should be alot better than carbonsteel, but is it really? cus 1060 carbon steel is pretty tough.

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Big Lazy
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Re: what is really best?

Post by Big Lazy » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:56 am

Real katanas - made in japan. Mass produced katanas - made in China.

froller2
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Re: what is really best?

Post by froller2 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:15 am

Larnz wrote:Real katanas - made in japan. Mass produced katanas - made in China.
i know that, but the steel we got in katanas now is pretty neat, but is it better than the steel they had in japan 700years ago?

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Re: what is really best?

Post by Geordie Ross » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:16 pm

It depends, if we take the best of the ancients, and the best of modern, modern would win, if we use the best of ancient, and the worst of modern, traditional would win.

The traditional methods used by master blacksmiths would be equal to, or weaker than the strength of modern metallurgy, the trick is, an even carbon content, with less 'pockets' of unequal iron-carbon ratio, and a strong lamination method, however, if you get a real, nihonto antique, and use it to cut things with, your rectal cavity will be used as a sheath. Because they are exceedingly, rare, beautiful, and expensive.

The ancient smiths didn't have our modern understanding of uniformity of atoms, but they figured out that folding the steel makes it much stronger, (because it spreads the carbon evenly) and by using softer steels for the centre, and harder steels on the edge, you get a flexible sword that holds a very sharp edge.

Plus, they didn't have the advantage of alloys.

froller2
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Re: what is really best?

Post by froller2 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:34 pm

Geordie Ross wrote:It depends, if we take the best of the ancients, and the best of modern, modern would win, if we use the best of ancient, and the worst of modern, traditional would win.

The traditional methods used by master blacksmiths would be equal to, or weaker than the strength of modern metallurgy, the trick is, an even carbon content, with less 'pockets' of unequal iron-carbon ratio, and a strong lamination method, however, if you get a real, nihonto antique, and use it to cut things with, your rectal cavity will be used as a sheath. Because they are exceedingly, rare, beautiful, and expensive.

The ancient smiths didn't have our modern understanding of uniformity of atoms, but they figured out that folding the steel makes it much stronger, (because it spreads the carbon evenly) and by using softer steels for the centre, and harder steels on the edge, you get a flexible sword that holds a very sharp edge.

Plus, they didn't have the advantage of alloys.
thanks::)

so if i take etc my fenghuang or my cheness tenchi against an ancient katana my fenghuang wouldn't last but my tenchi would?

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Re: what is really best?

Post by Geordie Ross » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:39 pm

They'd both last, folding is unnecessary due to modern metals, its primarily for aesthetic purposes rather than practicality.

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Re: what is really best?

Post by Big Lazy » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:38 pm

Not forgetting of course none of us are ever gonna get a traditional hand made sword outta Japan.... ever :cry:

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Re: what is really best?

Post by froller2 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:57 pm

Larnz wrote:Not forgetting of course none of us are ever gonna get a traditional hand made sword outta Japan.... ever :cry:
what do you mean?

Balian
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Re: what is really best?

Post by Balian » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:29 pm

Because a real japanese sword made in japan by master sword smiths are ludicrously expensive not to mention export / import hassles. If you are after a really tough steel, then get a sword made of L6 Bainite.

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Moon
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Re: what is really best?

Post by Moon » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:15 am

Larnz wrote:Not forgetting of course none of us are ever gonna get a traditional hand made sword outta Japan.... ever :cry:
Some of us go back a long time with 'gooseman' on another forum and we know that he has 11 Nihonto, all bought from Japan. ;)
http://forum.blades-uk.com/phpbb3/viewt ... 38&t=16469

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liquidator96
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Re: what is really best?

Post by liquidator96 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:44 am

You also don't need to buy an expensive L6 steel sword, your Cheness sword is made from 9160 Spring Steel & is pretty much indestructible from what I hear, :D

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Re: what is really best?

Post by Maynar » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:38 am

Moon wrote:
Larnz wrote:Not forgetting of course none of us are ever gonna get a traditional hand made sword outta Japan.... ever :cry:
Some of us go back a long time with 'gooseman' on another forum and we know that he has 11 Nihonto, all bought from Japan. ;)
http://forum.blades-uk.com/phpbb3/viewt ... 38&t=16469
I miss the Gooseman. What a character. ;)

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the blade master
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Re: what is really best?

Post by the blade master » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:37 am

aye i did enjoy my chats with him for sure maynar

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wtf?
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Re: what is really best?

Post by wtf? » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:18 pm

liquidator96 wrote:You also don't need to buy an expensive L6 steel sword, your Cheness sword is made from 9160 Spring Steel & is pretty much indestructible from what I hear, :D
Tough yet still hard is the trick.... Spring steels will make a good, tough blades... But their edge retention isnt good. To remain decent, they need different grinds to the type which is usually used on jap style blades.

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liquidator96
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Re: what is really best?

Post by liquidator96 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:39 pm

As I have considered saving up for the Cheness Tenchi Katana, I bid thee 'Pray Enlighten Me as to it's worth Sir'
Would it be a good investment of £300+ or would you recommend another Katana, as your Engineering & Metallurgical knowledge is well known here, your insight would be most appreciated, :D

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