Martial Arts

A forum for discussion on all things related to the martial-arts and oriental sword-arts

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Banzai Joe
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Post by Banzai Joe » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:23 pm

Steve Ishikawa wrote:I'd say Karate - Wada Ryu or Shotokan.

There very good and very common to find,
Yes, very common to find, good for fitness and confidence. Questionable for street defence though (if thats what Andy is looking for).

Again, as badboy said tai chi is excellent.

badboyace84
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Post by badboyace84 » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:26 pm

yeah i love tai chi have been doing it since june/july and my teacher has already asked me if i fancied doing it as a proffession so i said yeah so im now learning to teach

did you know tai chi is hoping to become an olympic sport for 2012?

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Steve Ishikawa
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Post by Steve Ishikawa » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:52 pm

Banzai Joe wrote:
Steve Ishikawa wrote:I'd say Karate - Wada Ryu or Shotokan.

There very good and very common to find,
Yes, very common to find, good for fitness and confidence. Questionable for street defence though (if thats what Andy is looking for).

Again, as badboy said tai chi is excellent.
Sorry but i would have to dissagree with you there - Karate is a very good defence art for street or anywhere in general. It does give a tremendous amount of confidence, and the knowlege of the extent of damage you can do to your attacker, and the extent of force you should inflict - whihc is very important these days considering you can get jailed for beating an attacker up.

Shotokan is a more powerful karate art when it comes to low stances and hard hitting punches directed to make the attacker fall down and not get back up. Wada Ryu is much more lucid and tends to steer toward the blocking and locking side of the spectrum - but all arts cover the basic foundation of punches and kicks. Neither of these arts have let me down - and if you take it seriously it won't fade when it comes to defensive fighting.

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Banzai Joe
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Post by Banzai Joe » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:50 pm

Showing your young age and experience now Steve.
Technically there's hardly any diff. between shotokan and wado, except the lower stances. Having been around MA's for 20 years i've not come across any of these kind of arts that physically help so much in the street as students are taught to pull their punches and kicks. They pull them in kumite (depending on rules of course) or they get penalised, it used to happen to me a lot. I know some very high ranking exponents of both ryu's and they are very very formidable, but they have been studying far longer than i have.
Sure they're very advantageous arts, but i'll stand by what i say and put them in the taekwondo category as far as street effective goes.....too mechanica, especially if you come against another experience fighter.

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wtf?
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Post by wtf? » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:29 am

something important to remember, that i dont think anyone has mentioned....

SOME karate is good, some isnt.

SOME ju-jutsu is good... some isnt

SOME..... blah.

it all depends on the instructor.... ive never seen a good karate class, and ive seen a few... but geoff thomson swears by it, and i wont dissagree with him (i simply havent got the guts. lol)

the only way you can ask which martial art is better for street defence is to take arts by their principles.... kenjutsu being useless in this area, as no-one carries swords, etc.

as a rule, ive always found that ju-jutsu covers most area's... problem is... its hard to find a good instructor.

ive not delved into karate sinse i was a kid... and the most exposure ive had is walking past classes on the way to my own.... generally i disslike it, if for 1 simple reason... they dont teach groundwork.

its a common (and correct) belief that about 90% of all fights end up on the floor.... and its not somehting you can control to any great extent.

so if you dont teach/learn groundwork, your passing the fighting range that covers 90% of potential situations. your training in an art that doesnt cover 90% of the overall threat.

ive fought MANY karate, TQD, kickboxing, thai boxing guys... instructors included... and all of them are horribly easy to beat because of that weakness. its only when they cross train that they become troublesome.

also... street defence has little to do with martial arts.... dont get me wrong... the techniques are martial arts techniques, and without the martial arts you would have no self defence arts... but theres a huge difference.

street fighting means biting, scratching, eye gauging, spitting, all strikes, all throws, all locks, all everything.... anything.
also involves proper role playing to help manage adrenalin, and stop log-jam, and a whole host of other problems.... role play means plenty of swearing. it also means pre-emptive striking.

a martial art doesnt involve much of the above, where a defence art does... plus in most dojo, if you were to shout "what the f*ck you lookin at? you f*cking want some?" at the top of your lungs, you'd get expelled. (dont worry, we have a special venue for role play, where no-one can hear us... its not like were in the local sports centre)

i'll be the first to admit its not nice... but its a required evil for defence. most karate calls itself a defensive art... but defence means you've been cought off guard, and your waiting for an attack... in a 'self defence' situation... thats a really stupid place to be.

just some general info from me... might be usefull... might not.
Last edited by wtf? on Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sprout
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Post by sprout » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:14 am

badboyace84 wrote:yeah i love tai chi have been doing it since june/july and my teacher has already asked me if i fancied doing it as a proffession so i said yeah so im now learning to teach

did you know tai chi is hoping to become an olympic sport for 2012?
you must train a lot, most people take years before they are competant enough to teach

badboyace84
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Post by badboyace84 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:03 pm

yeah everyday at least 2 times a day usually 3 times and the course is about 3 years to become a grade c instructor from then its on its way up to become a grade A that means more wepons forms *yay*and more empty handed forms

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sprout
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Post by sprout » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:08 pm

what style?

badboyace84
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Post by badboyace84 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:10 pm

at the mo im doing the yang short form (37 steps i think) and from march 17th im doing tai chi broadsword and then learning the yang long form

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sprout
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Post by sprout » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:22 pm

who certifies the grades, AMA? looking forward to spear as well then i guess

badboyace84
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Post by badboyace84 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:27 pm

yeah spear, straight sword and staff i wanna do all of them

the body of exams is with the tai chi union of great britain

are you a tai chi practitioner then what style do u do do u enjoy it

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sprout
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Post by sprout » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:21 am

chen style pour moi, have done the basics in tai chi sword. different, intersting, and of course enjoyable

badboyace84
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Post by badboyace84 » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:55 am

yeah im sure it is cant wait to do sword myself is it straight sword or broadsword that you have done

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sprout
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Post by sprout » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:05 pm

tai chi sword being gim or jian= straightsword

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Steve Ishikawa
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Post by Steve Ishikawa » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:40 pm

Banzai Joe wrote:Showing your young age and experience now Steve.
Technically there's hardly any diff. between shotokan and wado, except the lower stances. Having been around MA's for 20 years i've not come across any of these kind of arts that physically help so much in the street as students are taught to pull their punches and kicks. They pull them in kumite (depending on rules of course) or they get penalised, it used to happen to me a lot. I know some very high ranking exponents of both ryu's and they are very very formidable, but they have been studying far longer than i have.
Sure they're very advantageous arts, but i'll stand by what i say and put them in the taekwondo category as far as street effective goes.....too mechanica, especially if you come against another experience fighter.
True, but a martial art is only as good as its practitioner and instructor (as commented by wtf?) and it applies to everything - jujitsu, boxing etc - I personally find boxing and Mok Gar very effective street combats and some shaolin kung fu styles not to be - purly because i found some kung fu (crane, for example) hard to get my head around, and the balancing techniques i found very diffecult, espiecally in a situation where an attacker would simply plough into you (its happened to me). As such I find martial arts that retain low, strong stances to be most effective - and there are similarities between Shotokan and Wada Ryu - kata's are different, as are stances and fist techniques - they emply the Lepod punch and hammer fist, wada ryu only does so past 3rd kyu, and in some schools they don't even train them in those fist until 1st Dan - but the basic principle is the same, shotokan is what many believe to be the original karate art, wada ryu and all the other spin offs were believed to be created by the desendants and dicipeles of Master F.

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